Another King James Bible Believer

In John chapter 17 we have recorded our Lord Jesus Christ's High Priestly Prayer for His own whom God had given Him. The phrase "those whom thou hast given me" occurs 7 times in the King James Bible in this one chapter.

Those whom God the Father gave to Christ the Son are mentioned in this prayer in verse  2, verse 6 (twice), verse 9, verses 11 and 12 and the 7th time in verse 24.

But such is not the case with many of today's Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman, Jehovah Witness New World Translation and most modern Catholic versions; it is only found 5 times.  

Here are the 7 times Jesus mentions those whom the Father had given Him as they stand in the King James Bible and in the other Reformation Bibles as well.

John 17:2 "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM."

John 17:6 "I have manifested thy name unto THE MEN WHICH THOU GAVE ME out of the world: thine they were, and THOU GAVEST THEM ME; and they have kept thy word."

John 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for THEM WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for they are thine."

John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME, that they may be one as we are."

John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

John 17:24 "Father, I will that THEY ALSO, WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou loves me before the foundation of the world."  

Now, let's examine the 2 verses that differ - John 17:11 and 17:12.

John 17:11b KJB - "Holy Father, keep through thine own name THOSE WHOM thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."

John 17:11b ESV - "Holy Father, keep them in your name WHICH you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one." 

John 17:12 KJB - "While I was with them IN THE WORLD, I kept them in thy name: THOSE whom thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

John 17:12 ESV - "While I was with them, I kept them in your name WHICH you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."  

The Differences

In John 17:11-12 the King James Bible and the Reformation text has Jesus asking the Father to keep THOSE WHOM thou hast given me.  But the UBS critical text versions refer to THE NAME WHICH you have given me.

"those whom thou has given me" - οὓς δέδωκάς μοι - is found in the Textus Receptus, the Old Latin air, f, g, the Coptic Sahidic, Gothic, Georgian, Ethiopian, Slavonic, and the Syriac Peshitta ancient versions.  It is also so quoted by such early church writers as Athanasius, Jerome, Augustin, Cyril and Hesychius. 

Agreeing with the readings found in the King James Bible are Coverdale 1535, The Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Beza N.T. 1599, Wesley's N.T. 1755, the NKJV 1982, the Tomson N.T. 2002, Complete Apostle's bible 2005 and the Modern English Version 2014 to name but a few.

However among some of the so called "oldest and best mss." there are three different readings here. D has "WHAT you have given me" -ὃ δέδωκάς μοι, while Sinaiticus has "WHICH you GAVE me" - ᾧ ἔδωκάς μοι - and Vaticanus has "WHICH you HAVE GIVEN  me" - ᾧ δέδωκάς μοι.  But in any case, it no longer refers to "THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME", but to the NAME God gave Him.  

I am not going to go into all the examples where the so called "oldest and best manuscripts" disagree even with each other in this single chapter. Most of today's Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman, J.W. New World Translation and the modern Catholic versions are based upon an "inter confessional" text which relies heavily on Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.

For documented proof that these modern versions ARE based on the Vatican supervised, ever changing Critical Greek text, See - 

Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET, Jehovah Witness NWT etc. are  the new "Vatican Versions"

http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm

Let me briefly mention a couple of examples in just this one chapter. In 17:15 the Lord prays: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." However Vaticanus original skipped several words here and actually read: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out the evil."!!!

In John 17:17 Jesus says: "Sanctify them through thy truth: THY WORD IS TRUTH." But Sinaiticus omits the words "Thy word is truth.", but they are found in Vaticanus.   And in 17:21 when Jesus prays "that they may be ONE in us" Vaticanus omits the word ONE but it is found in Sinaiticus. 

Back to John 17:12.

John 17:12 KJB - "While I was with them IN THE WORLD, I kept them in thy name: THOSE whom thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

John 17:12 ESV - "While I was with them, I kept them in your name WHICH you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."  

It is a well established fact that the number 7 is the divine number of spiritual completion and perfection. In Scripture, seven symbolizes completeness or perfection. On the seventh day God rested from his labors and creation is finished (Gn 2:2). Pharaoh in his dream saw seven cattle coming from the Nile (41:2).

Samson’s sacred Nazarite locks were braided in seven plaits (Jgs 16:13). Seven devils left Mary of Magdala, signifying the totality of her previous possession by Satan (Lk 8:2); "seven other devils" will enter the purified but vacant life of a person (Mt 12:45). 

However, on the positive side, there were the seven spirits of God (Rv 3:1). In the seventh year the Hebrew slave was to be freed (Ex 21:2), having completed his time of captivity and service. Every seventh year was a sabbatical year (Lv 25:4). Seven times seven reiterates the sense of completeness. 

In the Year of Jubilee (at the completion of 7 x 7 years = the 50th year), all land is freed and returns to the original owners (Lv 25:10). Pentecost, the Feast of Weeks, is seven times seven days after Passover. "Seventy," which is literally "sevens" in Hebrew, strengthens the concept of perfection. 

There are 70 elders (Ex 24:1) in Israel. Israel was exiled to Babylon for 70 years (Jer 25:12) to complete its punishment. To forgive an offending brother "Seventy times seven" (Mt 18:22) reiterates this still further.  

The Catholic Connection

As usual, we see the typical confusion and constant change among the Catholic versions.  Both the early Douay-Rheims of 1582 and the 1950 Douay have the phrase referring to "those thou hast given me" 7 times. 

But then the 1968 Jerusalem bible, the 1970 St. Joseph NAB and the 1985 New Jerusalem all changed verses 11 and 12 to make it the NAME God had given to Jesus rather that "THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME". 

The St. Joseph New American bible reads just like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman and Jehovah Witness NWT with "O Father most holy, protect them with your NAME WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN ME"..."I guarded them with YOUR NAME WHICH YOU GAVE ME."

But now the 2009 Catholic Public Domain Version has come down the pike and it once again reads:"Father most holy, preserve them in your name, THOSE WHOM YOU HAVE GIVEN TO ME, so that they may be one, even as we are one.{17:12} While I was with them, I preserved them in your name. I have guarded THOSE WHOM YOU HAVE GIVEN TO ME."  

Foreign Language Bible = KJB

There are many foreign language Bibles that read like the KJB and refer to those whom the Father had given to the Son 7 times.  Among these are the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1549, the Cipriano de Valera 1602 and the Reina Valeras 1909 -1995 - "Cuando estaba con ellos en el mundo, yo los guardaba en tu Nombre; a los que me diste, yo los guardé", the French Martin 1744, French Ostervald 1996 and the French Louis Segond 2007 - "Quand j'étais avec eux au monde, je les gardais en ton Nom; j'ai gardé ceux que tu m'as donnés,", Luther's German Bible 1545 - "Dieweil ich bei ihnen war in der Welt, erhielt ich sie in deinem Namen. Die du mir gegeben hast, die habe icy bewahret", the Italian Diodati 1649, La Nuova Diodati 1991 and the Italian Riveduta bible 2006 - "Quand’io era con loro nel mondo, io li conservava nel nome tuo; io ho guardati coloro che tu mi hai dati,", the Portuguese A Bibla Sagrada and the Portuguese Almeida Corrigida 2009 - "Estando eu com eles no mundo, guardava-os em teu nome. Tenho guardado aqueles que tu me deist".

Stick with the King James Bible. God has clearly set His mark of divine approval upon this Book like no other in history. Don't be deceived by the fake, continually changing Vatican Versions that nobody seriously believes are the infallible words of God.  

Arminian "free will" Fantasy lovers and  John 17:12  

There are several rabid "free will" Arminians out there that use John 17:12 to try to prop up their idea someone can be "given" to the Lord or "chosen" and yet end up in hell.  They site John 17:12, but they don't seem to be able to read or understand the English language or to tie one clear verse with another.

In John 17:12 the Lord Jesus says: "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name; those thou gavest me have I kept, and NONE OF THEM IS LOST, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Here the rabid free willers tell that Judas was given to Jesus and yet he was lost.  But the text does not say that.  If you read the text carefully, what He is saying is that none of those that God gave to Jesus were lost, but the son of perdition was lost. Judas never was a child of God, and the Lord chose him, not to salvation, but as one of the apostles so that Judas could fulfill the prophesies that one who ate bread with Him would betray Him.

Notice what the Lord says in other parts of John.  In John 13 where the Lord washes the disciples feet "Jesus saith to him (Peter), He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, BUT NOT ALL.  For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean."

Judas never was "clean".  In fact, he was a devil.  In John 6:70-71 we read: "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, AND ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL?  He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon; for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."  

Judas was chosen to be one of the 12, but he was not one of God's elect unto salvation. He was a devil was used to fulfill the O.T. prophesies regarding one who ate bread with him lifted up the heal against him. (Psalm 41:9)

And in John 13:18 the Lord Jesus says: "I speak NOT of you all: I know whom I have chosen; but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."  

And in Mark 14:21 the Lord says: "The Son of man indeed goeth, AS IT IS WRITTEN OF HIM; but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!  good were it for that man IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN."

Judas Iscariot, the betrayer and devil, was "chosen" only in the sense of being one of the followers of Jesus to fulfill the prophesies, but he was never "clean", "washed" or among "the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."  John 17:6

All of grace, believing the Book,

Will Kinney

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Notes from the Internet  

After reading this article, a brother wrote and asked an interesting question. He said "What was the Name that Jesus revealed to those God gave Him?  I was looking for it, but couldn't find it.

To whom I responded:  When Jesus speaks of "the name" that he revealed to those whom God had given him, he is not referring to a specific name like Jehovah or Elohim, or Adonai. What he is referring to is the CHARACTER and NATURE of God.