Is the constantly changing ESV the inerrant words of God or not?
Questions for those who think the ESV is the inerrant words of God, or even a good translation.
Is the ESV inerrant when it omits Matthew 12:47? And if it is, then these others are not inerrant. Right?
Matthew 12:47 KJB (ASV, NASB, NIV, NET, Holman, Legacy Standard Bible 2021) "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee."
ESV 2001-2016 - entirely omit.
https://brandplucked.webs.com/gospel-of-matthew-2
Which ESV got it right?
Matthew 18:22 How many times Did Jesus say to forgive your brother "SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN or SEVENTY-SEVEN times?"
Matthew 18:22 KJB, RV, ASV, NASB 1963-1995 editions, NKJV, RSV, ESV 2001, 2007 editions, Holman, Douay-Rheims, ALL Greek texts) - "Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN." (490 times)
ESV 2011, 2016 editions, NASB 2020 edition, NRSV, NIV, NET, Catholic New Jerusalem - "Jesus said to him, 'I do not say to you seven times, but SEVENTY-SEVEN TIMES."
https://brandplucked.webs.com/wrongnumbers.htm
Which ESV got it right in Genesis 3:16?
(Hint - neither one of them is right)
The Ever Changing ESVs.
Genesis 3:16 - KJB - "Unto the woman he said, I WILL GREATLY MULTIPLY THY SORROW AND THY CONCEPTION; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be TO thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
ESV 2001, 2007 and 2011 editions - To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply YOUR PAIN IN CHILDBEARING; in pain you shall bring forth children, Your desire shall be FOR your husband, and he shall rule over you.”
ESV 2016 edition - To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be CONTRARY TO your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
See why the KJB got it right and none of the ESVs did here -
https://brandplucked.webs.com/gen316conception.htm
Which ESV got the numbers right in 1 Samuel 13:1?
(Hint - neither one of them did)
Look at the new "revision" of the ESV 2011. It came out in 2001 and they revised and changed about 300 verses in 2007 and then they revised it again in 2011 and then again in 2016. That is 4 editions in just 16 years, and they keep changing both the underlying texts and the translations.
Take a look at what they have done with 1 Samuel 13:1. The ESVs have TWO different readings and they are BOTH wrong.
A similar thing happens with the constantly changing NASB. Notice it has TWO different readings depending on which edition you get and neither one agrees with any of the ESVs. From 1972 to 1977 they had 40/32 years, but now in the 1995 edition it reads 30/42 years, and BOTH ARE WRONG.
1 Samuel 13:1 Here we read: Saul reigned ONE year; and when he had reigned TWO years over Israel, Saul chose him three thousand men of Israel.
reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva, Judaica Press Tanach, Orthodox Jewish Bible), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), OR 30 years/ 40 years (NET) or _____years and______and two years (RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985), or "was 40 years old...and when he had reigned 2 years" (Amplified bible 1987) or "____years old and reigned 2 years" (Complete Jewish bible, Knox bible) or "was 30 years old...ruled for 42 years" (ISV, Common English Bible) or 32 years old...reigned for 22 years? in the 1989 Revised English Bible, or even "was 50 years old and reigned 22 years."! New English Bible 1970.
But wait. There's even more. The ESV 2001 edition had "Saul was________years old when he began to reign, and he reigned____and two years over Israel."
But now the 2011 and 2016 editions of the ESV have come out (I have a hard copies right here in front of me) and it now has the perhaps even more ridiculous reading of "Saul LIVED FOR ONE YEAR AND THEN BECAME KING, and when he had reigned FOR TWO YEARS over Israel, Saul chose 3000 men of Israel...".
Think about it. "Saul lived for one year and then became king". They just get loopier and loopier, don't they?
Can you guess which other bible version reads like the latest ESV? You got it. The Catholic Douay-Rheims and the Douay Version 1950 - "Saul WAS A CHILD OF ONE YEAR WHEN HE BEGAN TO REIGN, and he reigned two years over Israel."
By the way, here is a more in depth study showing why the King James Bible got it right, as it ALWAYS does.
http://brandplucked.webs.com/1samuel131wordslost.htm
How many men did God kill? Bible Babble Buffet versions at their best.
1 Samuel 6:19 - 50,070 men slain or only 70 or 75 or 70 men 50 chief men or 50 oxen of a man or 5000 and 70?
Why we cannot trust the Bible commentators or the modern versions.
1 Samuel 6:19 King James Bible (NASB, NET, RV, ASV, ISV, Hebrew O.T., Greek Septuagint) - "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked INTO the ark of the LORD, even he smote OF THE PEOPLE FIFTY THOUSAND AND THREESCORE AND TEN MEN: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
ESV 2016 (NIV 2011, CSB, Catholic St. Joseph New American bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985, New Catholic bible 2019) - "He struck SEVENTY men of them, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great blow."
Or the NKJV, NLT footnotes tell us: "The Lord killed 70 men and 50 oxen."
Young's "literal" (Hah!) translation reads: "He smiteth among the people SEVENTY MEN - FIFTY CHIEF MEN".
While The Voice 2012 tells us that "God struck down 75 men"
Lamsa's 1936 translation of the Syriac Peshitta says "the LORD smote FIVE THOUSAND AND SEVENTY men of the people"
How Old Was Jehoiachin, 8 or 18? Which ESV got it right?
2 Chronicles 36:9 KJB, NASB 1972-1995 editions, NKJV, RV, ASV, KJB, RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition - "Jehoiachin was EIGHT years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days."
2 Chronicles 36:9 NIV, NASB 2020 edition, ESV 2011 edition, NET, Jehovah Witness NWT - "Jehoiachin was EIGHTEEN years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months and ten days."
Again, notice that in 2 Chronicles 36:9 the ESVs as well as the NASBs have come out with TWO different textual editions. The first ones followed the Hebrew text while the latest editions reject the Hebrew text as well as both the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus LXX readings and went with the Alexandrinus LXX reading. Not even the so called Greek Septuagint versions agree among themselves. Neither do the Catholic versions agree among themselves either.
2 Chronicles 36:9 in the Hebrew text reads that Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign (Hebrew texts, KJB, NASBs 1972-1995 editions, NKJV, RV, ASV, KJB, RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, Douay-Rheims)
or was he 18 years old as the NIV, Holman, NET, NASB 2020 edition, ESV 2007, 2016 editions!!! and once again the Catholic New Jerusalem tell us?
http://brandplucked.webs.com/jehoiachin8or18.htm
Ezekiel 40:14 Which ESV got their numbers right?
ESVs 2001, 2007 and 2011 editions - “He measured also the vestibule, TWENTY cubits. And around the vestibule of the gateway was the court.
ESV 2016 edition - “He measured also the vestibule, SIXTY cubits. And around the vestibule of the gateway was the court.
Just so you know, TWENTY comes from the Septuagint and SIXTY is from the Hebrew.
Is the ESV the inerrant words of God when it adds some 42 words to the Hebrew texts in 1 Samuel 10:1 that are not found in the NASB, NIV, NKJV, Holman or the ISV versions?
KJB - Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the Lord hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?
ESV - Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on his head and kissed him and said, “Has not the Lord anointed you to be prince over his people Israel? And you shall reign over the people of the Lord and you will save them from the hand of their surrounding enemies. And this shall be the sign to you that the Lord has anointed you to be prince over his heritage.
See also 1 Samuel 14:41 where his ESV add some 36 words to the Hebrew text that are not found in the RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, KJB, Holman Standard, ISV or the NIV 1984 edition (but the ever changing NIV 2011 also added them).
KJB - 41 Therefore Saul said unto the Lord God of Israel, Give a perfect lot. And Saul and Jonathan were taken: but the people escaped.
ESV - Therefore Saul said, “O Lord God of Israel, why have you not answered your servant this day? If this guilt is in me or in Jonathan my son, O Lord, God of Israel, give Urim. But if this guilt is in your people Israel, give Thummim.” And Jonathan and Saul were taken, but the people escaped.
Which Text Does the ESV follow here?
2 Samuel 6:5 The Hebrew text or parts of the so called Greek Septuagint?
2 Samuel 6:5 King James Bible and the Hebrew text read:
KJB (NASB, NKJV, Young's, Holman, ASV, Geneva bible, Hebrew Names Version and many more) "And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord ON ALL MANNER OF INSTRUMENTS MADE OF FIR WOOD, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals."
ESV and the NIV
The ESV rejects the Hebrew text and follows PART of the so called Greek LXX, while the NIV follows ANOTHER PART of the Greek LXX.
ESV - "And David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, WITH SONGS [a] and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals."
Footnotes:
2 Samuel 6:5 Septuagint, Hebrew fir trees
NIV - "David and all Israel were celebrating WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT before the Lord, with castanets, harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals."
The NIV 1984 edition notes in its Footnote that the Hebrew text does not contain the words "WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT" (or mightily) and that it reads like the KJB has it.
Yet you will notice that the ESV mentions WITH SONGS, while the NIV does not, but the NIV has "WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT" but the ESV does not include these words.
What is happening here is that both the ESV and the NIV are picking out PARTS of the LXX reading in the same verse, as they both reject the Hebrew reading, and they go with DIFFERENT PARTS and NOT ALL that the so called Greek Septuagint has in this one verse.
What the LXX actually has is this - It reads: "And David and THE CHILDREN OF (Not in ESV or NIV) of Israel were playing before the Lord ON WELL TUNED INSTRUMENTS (Not in ESV or NIV) MIGHTILY (In NIV but not in ESV or Hebrew) AND WITH SONGS (In the ESV but not in the NIV or in the Hebrew) and with harps, and with flutes, and with drums, and with cymbals and with pipes."
You can see the Septuagint translation here -
http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Kings%20II/index.htm
So what we see here is that both the ESV and NIV (along with Dan Wallace's NET version) have rejected the Hebrew text, and then each has picked up just PART of what the so called LXX says, and not the same parts!
The Catholic Connection
The earlier Catholic Douay-Rheims 1610 and the Douay Version 1950 followed the Hebrew text and read like the KJB.
"But David and all Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of wood, on harps and lutes and timbrels and cornets and cymbals."
BUT the newer Catholic versions like the St. Joseph New American bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985 have likewise rejected the Hebrew text and followed the so called Greek Septuagint and even included BOTH readings found in it saying:
2 Samuel 6:6 "David and the whole House of Israel danced before Yahweh WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT SINGING to the accompaniment of harps, lyres, tambourines, sistrums and cymbals." New Jerusalem bible 1985.
Then it footnotes telling us that "WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT SINGING" comes from the Greek Septuagint, but is not found in the Hebrew text.
And they call these shenanigans the "science" of textual criticism.
I think God has a different term for it. He calls it PERVERTING the words of God.
“…for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.” Jeremiah 23:36
Hosea 13:14 "I will redeem them from death...REPENTANCE shall be hid from mine eyes."
One of the most beautiful and comforting promises in the book of the prophet Hosea has been completely turned on its head and made out to be a threat instead of a comfort in many modern versions that don’t even agree among themselves.
King James Bible - "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: REPENTANCE SHALL BE HID FROM MINE EYES."
ESV 2001-2011 editions - "SHALL I ransom them from the power of Sheol? SHALL I redeem them from Death? O Death, WHERE ARE your plagues? O Sheol, WHERE IS YOUR STING? COMPASSION is hidden from my eyes."
But the ESV 2016 even changed their text again.
See the whole study here -
https://brandplucked.webs.com/hosea1314repentanceh.htm
Matthew 1:7-10. ESV errors from corrupt texts
Matthew chapter one lists the genealogy of our Lord Jesus Christ from the kingly line of David and Solomon.
KJB - "And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat ASA ; and ASA begat Josaphat"(v.10) And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat AMON and AMON begat Josias."
ESV - "and Solomon the father of (Here the ESV changed the verb found in all Greek texts "begat" to a noun not found in ANY Greek text "the father of" Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of ASAPH, and ASAPH the father of Jehoshaphat"(v.10) And Hezekiah the father of Manasseh and Manasseh the father of AMOS and AMOS the father of Josiah."
These different names - ASA versus ASAPH, and AMON versus AMOS are TEXTUAL differences. They are not variations in spelling the same names, but are totally different names that come from very different Greek texts. And the texts followed by the ESV here in verses 7, 8 and 10 are the WRONG names.
Simply go back to 1 Chronicles 3:10-14 in either the Hebrew Scriptures or even the so called Greek Septuagint and they both read the same. ASA was the son of Abia, and AMON was the son of Manasseh. Even the ESV tells you this in 1 Chronicles 3:10-14.
The ESV has followed the Westcott-Hort, UBS critical Greek text in these places where they have the wrong names. There were at least three men named Asaph and two named Amos, but neither one of them is listed anywhere in the Bible as being in the lineage of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Majority of all Greek manuscripts, the Hebrew Scriptures, Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Peshitta and even the so called Greek Septuagint read as does the King James Bible with ASA and AMON.
So where did the ESV get the names of ASAPH and AMOS? They come from Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. Instead of just recognizing that these are two of the most corrupt manuscripts in existence, they have chosen to go against all historical evidence to the contrary and have two guys in the lineage of our Saviour who simply do NOT belong there.
If you want to find out what these so called "oldest and best manuscripts", many modern versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman, Jehovah Witness NWT and the MODERN Catholic versions are ALL based on, See -
The True Character of the so called "Oldest and Best Manuscripts" Part One - Matthew, Mark and Luke.
"Oldest and Best" Part Two - John to Revelation.
What is interesting here is that not even the NASB, NIV, Holman Standard, The Voice, the Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011 or even Dan Wallace's NET version followed the UBS, Nestle-Aland critical Greek texts here that falsely read "Asaph" and "Amos", but went instead with the Traditional Greek texts of the Reformation Bibles and the KJB and they all correctly read "ASA" and "AMON" instead of the ESV's "ASAPH" and "AMOS".
The other perverted bibles would be the previous RSV where they correctly have ASA in verses 7 and 8 but then footnote that "the Greek says ASAPH", which is not true at all. Only a very few corrupt Greek manuscripts like Sinaiticus and Vaticanus read this way, while the vast majority of them have it right. But the RSV then went with the false reading of AMOS in verse 10, and then footnotes "others read Amon".
Then came along the NRSV of 1989 and it changed BOTH names to ASAPH and AMOS, just like the ESV 2001-2011 has it. These are TEXTUAL errors that result in two of the wrong men being placed into the lineage of the Lord Jesus Christ, and even the NASB, NIV, Holman and NET translators had enough sense to see that these are the wrong names and they went back to the Traditional Greek text in these two instances.
God is a God of absolute Truth; He cannot lie. If you find lies and falsehood in a book that purports to be the words of the living God and they are false, then this bible version is false and cannot be trusted.
"For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together." Mark 14:56
2 Kings 12:2 – Joash's Imperfect Reign AND an error in the ESV.
And Jehoash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all his days WHEREIN Jehoiada the priest instructed him. (KJV, Harkavy Jewish Bible)
And Jehoash did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD all his days WHEREIN Jehoiada the priest instructed him. (Jewish Publication Society)
And Jehoash did what was right in the eyes of the LORD all his days, BECAUSE Jehoiada the priest instructed him. (ESV)
As the KJV correctly translates, Jehoash (aka Joash) was a good king only so long as Jehoiada the priest was advising him. In the latter part of his reign (2 Chronicles 24), Jehoash killed Zechariah the prophet and paid off the Syrians not to attack Judah. The ESV and some modern translations suggest Jehoash was a good king all his life. But the ESV contradicts itself in Chronicles:
And Joash did what was right in the eyes of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. (2 Chronicles 24:2, ESV)
Mistakes like this discredit Scripture.
Also reading like the ESV in 2 Kings 12:2 and creating the contradiction are the Revised Standard Version and the New Revised Standard Version.
Also the Modern English version has this false reading -
Modern English Version 2014 - “Jehoash did what was right in the sight of the Lord all his days BECAUSE Jehoiada the priest instructed him.”
But not even the NASB 1972-2020, NIV 1971-2011, NET, the Voice 2012 nor the ISV agree with the ESV in this verse that creates a contradiction.
NASB 2020 - Jehoash did what was right in the sight of the Lord all his days THAT Jehoiada the priest instructed him.
Even Dan Wallace’s NET version has the same meaning as found in the KJB and he points out the contradiction found in the ESV.
His NET version 2006 says: “Jehoash did what the Lord approved all his days WHEN [b] Jehoiada the priest taught him.”
He comments - [b] “In either case the אֲשֶׁר clause restricts the time period that יוֹם describes. THEREFORE THIS VERSE DOES NOT CONTRADICT 2 Chr 24:2 which limits its praise of the king to “all the days of Jehoiada the priest.”
Agreeing with the King James Bible are the English Revised Version 1885, the ASV 1901 - “And Jehoash did that which was right in the eyes of Jehovah all his days WHEREIN Jehoiada the priest instructed him.”, Wycliffe 1395, World English Bible, Young’s 1898, Green’s literal, Darby 1890, the NKJV, Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011.
The Bishops’ bible 1568 as well as Coverdale 1535, the Great bible 1540 and Matthew’s bible 1549 have the same meaning with: “And he did that which was good in the sight of the Lorde, AS LONG AS Iehoiada the priest enfourmed him”
The Geneva Bible - “…. was good in the sight of the Lord ALL HIS TIME THAT Iehoiada the Priest taught him.”
The so called Greek Septuagint as well as Lamsa’s 1936 translation of the Syriac Peshitta agree with the KJB -
Translation of the Greek Septuagint - “And Joas did that which was right in the sight of the Lord ALL THE DAYS THAT Jodae the priest instructed him.”
“And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all his days WHEREIN Jehoida the priest instructed him.” (Lamsa)
Several other Modern Versions agree with the meaning found in the KJB and NOT with the ESV.
International Standard Version 2014 - “Jehoash did what the Lord considered to be right during THE ENTIRE TIME WHEN Jehoiada the priest was instructing him”
Other modern versions that agree with the KJB and not the ESV are the Christian Standard Bible 2017 - “THROUGHOUT THE TIME the priest Jehoiada instructed him, Joash did what was right in the Lord’s sight.”
Others are the Complete Jewish Bible 1998, Holman Standard 2009, the NIV 2011, The Voice 2012 and The Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011.
Both the Douay-Rheims 1610 and the Douay 1950 have the same meaning as that found in the KJB and so many others.
Douay-Rheims 1610 - “And Joas did that which was right before the Lord ALL THE DAYS THAT Joiada, the priest, taught him.”
But the more recent St. Joseph NAB 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985 read like the ESV and other Vatican Versions with. - Joash did what was pleasing to the LORD AS LONG AS HE LIVED, BECAUSE the priest Jehoida guided him.
The King James Bible is right again, as always.
Why would anyone in their right mind trust the ESV translators?
The constantly changing ESVs have many faults. They omit even more whole verses than the NASB, NIV and they often reject and add to the Hebrew Scriptures.
Here is another example of just how ridiculous some of their textual choices are.
Take this example from the ESV: in 2 Chronicles 9:7 the translators of the ESV changed the Hebrew reading to the Greek LXX reading from a parallel passage in 1 Kings 10:8.
The Hebrew and Greek at 2 Chronicles 9:7 agree together, but they still changed the reading in 1 Kings 10:8. So they "corrected" Hebrew based on a variant in the LXX in a parallel passage. The interesting thing is that they didn't even change 1 Kings 10:8 to match.
Let’s take a closer look.
In 1 Kings 10:8 in all Hebrew texts we read: “Happy are thy MEN; happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and hear thy wisdom."
In 2 Chronicles 9:7 in all Hebrew texts as well as the Greek Septuagint we read where the Queen of Sheba says to king Solomon: “Happy (blessed) are thy MEN and happy these thy servants which stand continually before thee, and hear thy wisdom.
7 μακάριοι οἱ ἄνδρες σου, μακάριοι οἱ παῖδες οὗτοι οἱ παρεστηκότες σοι διαπαντὸς καὶ ἀκούοντες τὴν σοφίαν σου·
Reading “Happy are your MEN” are the RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, Darby, Young’s, the Geneva Bible, Holman Standard, Modern English Version and a multitude of others as well.
Yet the ESVs 2001-2016 say: “Happy are YOUR WIVES! Happy are these your servants who continually stand before you and hear your wisdom.
This reading is not even found in the Septuagint here in 2 Chronicles 9:7. So where did the ESV translators get it? Well, let’s take a look at 1 Kings 10:8 in the Septuagint.
All Hebrew texts say MEN in 1 Kings 10:8 (which is 3 Kings in the LXX). But the so called Greek Septuagint reads - 8 μακάριαι αἱ γυναῖκές σου, μακάριοι οἱ παῖδές σου οὗτοι οἱ παρεστηκότες ἐνώπιόν σου διόλου, οἱ ἀκούοντες πᾶσαν τὴν φρόνησίν σου·
The LXX translation here is “Blessed are thy WIVES, blessed are these thy servants who stand before thee continually, who hear all thy wisdom.
YET here in 1 Kings 10:8 the ESV reads: “Happy are your MEN! Happy are your servants, who continually stand before you and hear your wisdom.”
Do you see what they have done? They took a false reading from a very corrupt so called Greek Septuagint out of 1 Kings 10:8 - which in this same chapter adds some 177 words to verse 22 that are found in NO translation and no Hebrew texts - and did NOT translate it as WIVES here but as MEN.
And then they took this false reading of WIVES from the LXX of 1 Kings 10:8 and then transferred it over to 2 Chronicles 9:7 where it is NOT found in either the Hebrew OR the Greek Septuagint, and it now reads: “Happy are YOUR WIVES! Happy are these your servants”
Can you guess which other version reads this way? The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition. But it has “happy are your WIVES” in BOTH 1 Kings 10:8 (following the LXX) and here in 2 Chronicles 9:7 where BOTH the Hebrew AND the Greek say MEN, and not WIVES.
And you trust these men to work on putting together a Bible for you?
Learn a lot more things like this about the every changing ESV so many Christians are blindly enamored of here -
The Ever Changing ESVs 2001, 2007, 2011 and 2016 editions = just another Vatican Version.
To see much more about the ever-changing, Vatican supervised Greek text based ESVs that omit even more whole verses than the NASB or NIV and that often reject and add to the Hebrew readings see -
The Ever Changing ESVs 2001, 2007, 2011 and 2016 editions = just another Vatican Version.
https://brandplucked.webs.com/theesv.htm