Another King James Bible Believer

Subtitle

Did we choose God or did He choose us?

Did we choose God or did He choose us?

 

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: FOR HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."  Acts 9:15-16

"And he said, THE GOD OF OUR FATHERS HATH CHOSEN THEE, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard." Acts 22:14-15.

 

 

The Doctrine of Election is taught all through the Bible.  It has always been God who does the choosing, not man.  Moses taught this, so did king David, the Lord Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul and John and Peter. They all taught the doctrine of the purpose of God according to election.

 

 "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God HATH CHOSEN THEE TO BE A SPECIAL PEOPLE UNTO HIMSELF, ABOVE ALL PEOPLE THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH."  "The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor CHOOSE you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people; But because the LORD loved you"  Deuteronomy 7:6-7 

 

"Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and HE CHOSE their seed after them, EVEN YOU ABOVE ALL PEOPLE, as it is this day."  Deuteronomy 10:15. 


"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD HATH CHOSEN THEE TO BE A PECULIAR PEOPLE UNTO HIMSELF, ABOVE ALL THE NATIONS THAT ARE UPON THE EARTH." Deuteronomy 14:2.


"Peculiar people"= belonging exclusively to only one person.

 

"Blessed is THE MAN WHOM THOU CHOOSEST, AND CAUSETH TO APPROACH UNTO THEE, that he may dwell in thy courts; we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."  Psalms 65:4

 

"YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit"  John 15:16  

 

"...ye are not of the world, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, therefore the world hateth you."  John 15:19



 


No other doctrine of the Christian faith is as hated and resisted among Christians as is the Doctrine of God's electing grace of individuals to salvation.  Yet God's Book clearly teaches this doctrine in a multitude of passages all throughout the Holy Bible.

 

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Whereunto HE CALLED YOU by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."  2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.


 

Mark 13:20 - "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but FOR THE ELECT'S SAKE, WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN, he hath shortened the days."

 

"For God HATH not APPOINTED US to wrath, but TO OBTAIN SALVATION by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who DIED FOR US, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."  1 Thessalonians 5:9-10.

 

"God Who HATH SAVED US, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE, WHICH WAS GIVEN US IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."  2 Timothy 1:9-10


"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED ( According as it is written, GOD HATH GIVEN THEM THE SPIRIT OF SLUMBER, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE, AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR;) unto this day." Romans 11:7-8



By nature all men are born natural "free willers" - those who believe and teach the idea that "I chose of my own free will to believe the gospel." 

We hear the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead and if we believe and are converted, and it SEEMS TO US that we made some kind of a "decision for Christ" and "of our own free will we chose to believe and accept Christ as our Saviour."

It is only natural to think in terms like this because that is how it FEELS to us in our personal experience.  It isn't till later, as we begin to read God's Book for ourselves, that some of us realize that it wasn't we who chose God but rather it was He who chose us.

We read that our new birth was "NOT of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD."  John 1:13

And that it was God Himself who gave us both the repentance and the faith to believe on Christ as our Saviour.

 


The whole point of Calvinism is that it is the Truth and it gives ALL the glory to God and humbles man in the dust, where we belong.


"Free will" Fantasy exalts man, tries to take credit for something the flesh did not do, and robs God of his glory.


Free will theology is right out of the Roman Catholic Catechism.


If you want to follow the whore, go right ahead. But it will all come to an end on Judgment Day. Then everybody will know that salvation is totally of the Lord and He does the choosing, not man.


Read the article. Compare the verses. Think about what the Book actually SAYS. Ask God to give you the faith to believe the words of God and not the carnal philosophy of men.


See "Why do some believe the gospel and others do not?" -

http://brandplucked.webs.com/originoffaith.htm

"For UNTO YOU IT IS GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for his sake." Philippians 1:29

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, TO EVERY MAN THAT IS AMONG YOU, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as GOD HATH DEALT TO EVERY MAN THE MEASURE OF FAITH." Romans 12:3

God, speaking through the apostle Paul, is telling the Christians to whom the book of Romans was written, that they believed the gospel because He himself had given them the faith to do so.  

And God is also telling us that if we believe otherwise, then we are thinking of ourselves more highly than we ought to think.  

 


Read online:  William Tyndale, "Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue"



http://www.hailandfire.com/wordsofwisdom_Quotes_WilliamTyndale.html




"Chosen in Christ"

In no uncertain terms God tells us in his book that "HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM (in Christ) BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love; HAVING PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."  Ephesians 1:4-6

And when exactly were God's chosen people actually redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb?  This same book of Ephesians goes on to explain in chapter 2:4-10 -

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, HATH QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, (by grace ye are saved;)

AND HATH RAISED US UP TOGETHER, AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The plain truth of Scripture is that God chose his people before the foundation of the world IN CHRIST, and that we were IN CHRIST when he died and we were raised up TOGETHER WITH HIM when he was raised, and we are now seated in the heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS and that we are GOD'S workmanship CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS.

No where in these passages of holy Scripture do we read a single word about the vaunted "free will of man" or his "decision to follow Christ" or even of him "placing his faith in Christ."  It is ALL of God.

If we were not chosen IN Christ before the foundation of the world, and were not IN Christ when he died and rose from the dead, then we are no child of God at all, and never will be. 

 

Where "free will" Arminians get seriously mixed up and go off the rails in their thinking is that when we see the words "God hath chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world" (which they desperately try to "explain away" and deny) they automatically think this means that we were redeemed or saved before the foundation of the world.


The Bible never says this. We (God's elect) WERE chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, but we were not in fact redeemed until Christ died on the cross some 2000 years ago.

It was at that point in history that we (God's elect) died together with Christ, were bought with the price of his precious blood, were quickened together with him and raised up together with him and are now seated with him in heavenly places.

The sins of the Old Testament saints were actually paid for at the cross as Romans 3:24-26 as well as Hebrews 9:15 tell us.

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


 

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Hebrews 9:15 - And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


***Objection #1. raised from a guy who says he was NOT IN Christ when he died and rose again.

  

Bernie H. writes: "Why wasn't your apostle Paul "IN CHRIST" before Christ died and rose again?"


Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were IN CHRIST ***BEFORE**** ME. 


I mean you say a person is "in Christ" before he died, yet Paul says he wasn't IN CHRIST before "Andronicus and Junia.  These two people were "in Christ" before Paul."


Answering the Objection -

 

Hi Bernie H. You apparently do not believe the book. There is a big difference between what is called Positional truth and Practical truth, or sometimes called Standing versus State.


Our Position is who we are IN Christ, and all of God's elect were IN Christ chosen of God before the foundation of the world and IN Christ when he died and rose from the dead. That is what the Book teaches and Paul includes himself in the letter to the Ephesians. He too is in the "us" and the "we" as well.


But the Practical, experiential truth is the outworking and the result of our Positional truth of who we are in Christ.


If you can't see this difference, then you end up creating direct contradictions in the Bible, and the "free will" fantasy ALWAYS creates contradictions.  Are you now seated in the heavenly places IN Christ as Ephesians 2:4-6 teaches or not?  IF we are a Christian, then we are, and that is our Position in Christ. 


 

 

The same truth is taught in Colossians 2:13-14. Here we read: "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM, having forgiven you all trespasses;  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS."  

 

It all happened at the cross. He finished the work the Father gave him to do. He came to redeem HIS PEOPLE from our sins and to reconcile us to God, and that is what he did.


More thought on "Who were in Christ before me"


Arminians glom on to anything they can find that they think overthrows the clear doctrine of Election to salvation from the beginning (2 Thessalonians 2:13) and God choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the world and being predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:4-5)

So they often bring up Romans 16:7 where Paul refers to two saints as having been "in Christ before me" and think that this verse overthrows all the others that speak of God's sovereign decree of election in Christ.

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."  Romans 16:7

But there is a very reasonable and biblical way of harmonizing the Scriptures without making the Bible contradict itself, as Arminianism always ends up doing.

John Gill, in his Commentary on the Whole Bible states - "who also were in Christ before me; which IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD, NOT OF THEIR SECRET BEING IN CHRIST, AS LOVED BY HIM, CHOSEN IN HIM, GIVEN TO HIM, AND REPRESENTED BY HIM IN THE COVENANT OF GRACE; for they had not a place in Christ's heart, or a share in his love before him;  NOR WERE THEY CHOSEN IN CHRIST BEFORE HIM, FOR ALL THE ELECT WERE CHOSEN TOGETHER WITH HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD; nor were they given to him, put into his hands, and made his care and charge before him; NOR WERE THEY CONSIDERED IN CHRIST AS THEIR COVENANT HEAD BEFORE HIM; Christ became their surety for them together, and received grace, blessings, and promises for them, and they in him before the world began; and was their common head and representative in time, in their nature; AND THEY WERE ALL TOGETHER CRUCIFIED, BURIED, AND RAISED WITH HIM, AND SET DOWN WITH HIM IN HEAVENLY PLACES TOGETHER. BUT THEY WERE IN THE PROFESSION OF FAITH, AND IN THE MINISTRY OF THE WORD BEFORE HIM, BEING CONVERTED AND BROUGHT TO THE FAITH OF CHRIST BEFORE HE WAS."


***Objection #2. raised -


Some of the "free willers" then come up with the argument - "Yeah, but look Will, God chooses those who believe. It says in Ephesians 1:12-13 that we trusted in Christ AFTER we heard the gospel of our salvation and after we believed we were sealed the holy Spirit of promise, and in Ephesians 2:2-3 it says that "IN TIME PAST ye walked according to the course of this world", and that "we all had our conversation in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."  

 

And then in 2:11-13 it says: "Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That AT THAT TIME ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

 

Answering the Objection - 


First of all, this "free will"/Arminian objector did not read Ephesians 1:13 correctly. It does NOT say that we are IN Christ after we believed.

Verses 11 and 12 are describing the O.T. Jews who "first trusted in Christ" because of the O.T. promises. Abraham believed God; David believed God, and so did the prophets and many Old Testament saints first trusted in Christ.

This is referring to Old Testament times.

Verses 13-14 are referring to the Gentiles to whom now the gospel has gone forth and God is calling out a people for his name from among the Gentile nations. "In whom ye also (you Gentiles) trusted, after that ye heard the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14.

Now, let's take a closer look at Ephesians chapter 2 and the surrounding context.

"Chosen in Christ"

In no uncertain terms God tells us in his book that "HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM (in Christ) BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love; HAVING PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."  Ephesians 1:4-6

When the Bible says that we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, it does not mean or say that we were redeemed or saved from the foundation of the world. This is where most "free will" Arminians make a serious mistake in their thinking. We were not yet redeemed. This didn't happen till Christ redeemed us by his blood on the cross and it was at that time that all of God's elect were quickened together with Him and raised up together in Christ and purchased with His precious blood. Arminians confuse election with redemption and they are not the same thing.

And when exactly were God's chosen people actually redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb?  This same book of Ephesians goes on to explain in chapter 2:4-10 -

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, HATH QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 AND HATH RAISED US UP TOGETHER, AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

The plain truth of Scripture is that God chose his people before the foundation of the world IN CHRIST, and that we were IN CHRIST when he died and we were raised up TOGETHER WITH HIM when he was raised, and we are now seated in the heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS and that we are GOD?S workmanship CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS.

No where in these passages of holy Scripture do we read a single word about the vaunted "free will of man" or his "decision to follow Christ" or even of him "placing his faith in Christ."  It is ALL of God.

If we were not chosen IN Christ before the foundation of the world, and were not IN Christ when he died and rose from the dead, then we are no child of God at all, and never will be. 
 
Ephesians 2:11-22. "At that time ye were without Christ"

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

It should be clear, once God opens our eyes to the plain meaning of the text, that when Paul refers to the Gentile believers to whom he is now writing, that he is referring to the Old Testament times BEFORE the cross.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

"AT THAT TIME" refers to the Old Testament dispensation when the Gentile nations were strangers from the commonwealth of Israel, BUT NOW they have been made nigh by the blood of Christ and they are fellow citizens with the saints." Compare Romans 9:23-26

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Gentiles before the cross - not my beloved people

the called Gentiles after the cross - my beloved people.


This has nothing at all to do with, nor does it contradict the fact that God had chosen them in Christ before the foundation of the world.

They were IN Christ when he died, quickened TOGETHER WITH HIM and raised up TOGETHER and made to sit TOGETHER in heavenly places IN Christ.

Just as we were all in Adam when he fell, so too all of God's elect were IN Christ when he died, was quickened and raised up from the dead. BUT NOW the elect Gentiles "are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

He IS our peace, who has made both (Jewish believers and Gentile believers) one and hath broken down the middle wall of partition.

Christ reconciled both the elect from among the Jews and the Gentiles unto God in one body by the cross. (Ephesians 2:15-16)

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.

There is no confusion once you see the truths of Election, Predestination, and Reconciliation.

God's elect people from both among the Jewish nation and among the Gentile nations were CHOSEN IN CHRIST BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and PREDESTINATED UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN according to the good pleasure of God?s will - nor our will.

All of God's elect, both Jew and Gentile, were IN Christ when he died, when he was quickened and when he rose from the dead, and we are now seated with him in the heavenly places. It is that sure.

Our redemption, reconciliation and the atonement made for our sins ALL took place at the cross.

The gospel is not an "offer" and it is not about something God WANTS to do or ATTEMPTS to do. It is a declaration of what God already DID at the cross where He loved the church and gave himself for it. Ephesians 5:25.

Only those who are His sheep will hear his voice and be given the faith to believe the gospel message.

"And other sheep I HAVE, which are not of this fold (the Jewish nation); THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and THEY SHALL HEAR MY VOICE; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." John 10:16

He laid down his life for the sheep. (John 10:15)

He gave his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:28)

For the transgression of my people was he stricken. (Isaiah 53:8)

He shall save his people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21)

May God open the eyes of more of his people to the truth of his purpose according to election.

 



A true Christian is NOT Elect because he believes the gospel. He believes BECAUSE he is Elect.

  

The "free willers" have everything backwards. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. 




Objection #3 raised


At this point I have had several free willers bring up a verse like Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE saved." or Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED, and thy house." They then say: "See, Will, this is in the FUTURE. It is not something that has already been done for us. You have to choose to believe and accept Christ."


I deal with this objection in a separate article you can see here - What they are missing is the fact that words like Redemption and Reconciliation and Salvation are NOT the same things.


http://brandplucked.webs.com/romans1013saved.htm

 

Objection #4

 

A free willer named Brian W. posts: "According to Calvinism God chose before any rebellion by anyone's will took place. How is that even possible when no individuals except the members of the Godhead existed to be chosen before creation?"


My Response:  One has to marvel in disbelief about how ignorant some Christians are about both the nature of God and the Bible.  Even the Arminian "I chose of my own free will to believe" god supposedly knows everything and is omniscient.  He sees and declares the end from the beginning.  He himself is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.


God knew he would create man (Adam) with a free will and that this free will of his would eventually come into conflict with the will of God.  Just as all mankind was IN Adam when he fell - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."  We all sinned in Adam.


If you or I had been there instead of Adam, we would have done the same thing he did.  We STILL often follow our own will instead of God's.


People exist in the mind of God before they actually exist physically.  


God's elect were IN Christ BEFORE the foundation of the world and predestinated unto the adoption of children, and we are clearly told that we were "quickened TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, AND RAISED UP TOGETHER, and made to SIT TOGETHER in heavenly places IN Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2:5-6) before we were even born.


God tells the prophet Jeremiah "BEFORE I formed thee in the belly I KNEW THEE; (THAT is God's foreknowledge); and BEFORE thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ORDAINED thee a prophet unto the nations."  Jeremiah 1:5


And we are told in the book of Hebrews 7:9-10 that "Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. FOR HE WAS YET IN THE LOINS OF HIS FATHER, when Melchisedec met him."


Do these people read their Bibles?  Or is it that they just don't believe what it says?


Objection # 5 What about Judas?  Wasn't he chosen and yet he was not saved?


 

Arminian "free will" Fantasy lovers and  John 17:12  


There are several rabid "free will" Arminians out there that use John 17:12 to try to prop up their idea someone can be "given" to the Lord or "chosen" and yet end up in hell.  They site John 17:12, but they don't seem to be able to read or understand the English language or to tie one verse with another.


In John 17:12 the Lord Jesus says: "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name; those thou gavest me have I kept, and NONE OF THEM IS LOST, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."


Here the rabid free willers tell that Judas was given to Jesus and yet he was lost.  But the text does not say that.  If you read the text carefully, what He is saying is that none of those that God gave to Jesus were lost, but the son of perdition was lost. Judas never was a child of God, and the Lord chose him, not to salvation, but as one of the apostles so that Judas could fulfill the prophesies that one who ate bread with Him would betray Him.


What is the verb being used in the second half of John 17:12?  The whole verb is "IS LOST". This is actually just one word in the Greek. 


So none of them that he kept in his name and none of those that were given him were lost, BUT the son of perdition is lost.  The verse does NOT say, as the Arminians want it to mean, that Judas also was kept in Christ's name and given by the Father to the Son and then he was lost.  No, not at all. The verse is drawing a distinction between those whom the Father gave to the Son and whom the Son kept in his name, and Judas, who was the son of perdition.  The word "perdition" itself means "the loss of the soul; eternal damnation"


Notice what the Lord says in other parts of John.  In John 13 where the Lord washes the disciples feet "Jesus saith to him (Peter), He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, BUT NOT ALL.  For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean."


Judas never was "clean".  In fact, he was a devil.  In John 6:70-71 we read: "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, AND ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL?  He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon; for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."  

 

Judas was chosen to be one of the 12, but he was not one of God's elect unto salvation. He was a devil was used to fulfill the O.T. prophesies regarding one who ate bread with him lifted up the heal against him. (Psalm 41:9)


And in John 13:18 the Lord Jesus says: "I speak NOT of you all: I know whom I have chosen; but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."  


And in Mark 14:21 the Lord says: "The Son of man indeed goeth, AS IT IS WRITTEN OF HIM; but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!  good were it for that man IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN."


Judas Iscariot, the betrayer and devil, was "chosen" only in the sense of being one of the followers of Jesus to fulfill the prophesies, but he was never "clean", "washed" or among "the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."  John 17:6

 

 

There are no contradictions in the doctrines of God's purpose according to election. It is only the "free will" mindset that causes them to misread and misapply the Scriptures in such a way as to create contradictions, and they always end up making God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ out to be both liars and colossal failures, because they do not believe they DID what they said they DID.

If God didn't mean that the doctrine of his electing grace is the truth that should be believed, then why is the Bible written the way it is?  

Why do so many Christians grasp as any straw to try to "explain away" or re-interpret what God has so clearly stated over and over again?  

The word "elect" or "election" is found 27 times in the King James Bible and in every case it is God who does the electing - "that the purpose of God according to election might stand." Romans 9:11

"ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."  John 6:37

NO exceptions. ALL - every single one of us - whom God gives to the Son WILL COME.

"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, THAT HE SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM."  John 17:2

When Paul and Barnabas were preaching the gospel to a mixed group of both Jews and Gentiles, we read these words given by the Holy Ghost himself - 

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: AND AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED." Acts 13:48

Notice that it does NOT say "as many as chose of their own free will" believed.

"OF HIS OWN WILL BEGAT HE US WITH THE WORD OF TRUTH, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures."  James 1:18

It all comes down to this.  Are we going to believe what God Himself says in his Book, or are we going to rely instead on the natural sense of our own experience and how it initially SEEMED to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour?

Many Christians through history have received and believed these precious doctrines of God's electing love to His chosen people, and others have resisted and fought against them. And so it continues today.

I often hear three responses from those who oppose these doctrines.  One is that they toss out 4 or 5 verses that they THINK teach contrary to this doctrine, and in every case they both misunderstand and misapply these verses in such a way as to directly contradict the other clear verses of Scripture.

Another response is to say something like "That is not the God I worship. I could never believe in a God like that who chooses to save some but not the others."

Well, maybe this is true. The "god" they believe in is not the God of the Bible who of the same lump of clay makes both the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction and "the vessels of mercy which he afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called" - Romans 9:16-24

They have a god of their own imaginations created in their own image, and it is not the true and living God revealed in the Holy Bible.

And others, whom I believe are true Christians, resist these doctrines and half-jokingly say things like "Well, I am predestined to not be a Calvinist."

This may also be true.  "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"  1 Corinthians 4:7

One of the main things God is doing with his people is to humble us.  We will either be humbled in this life as we come to recognize our own wretchedness and unworthiness, and that we had NOTHING AT ALL to do with our own salvation - not "our will" or our "decision" or our "placing our faith in Christ".  Nothing.

Or we will be greatly humbled at the judgement seat of Christ where much of the life work of many a preacher will be burned up as so much wood, hay and stubble when we will find out just how much we got wrong and were fighting against God and his truth.

"The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD ALONE shall be exalted in that day."  Isaiah 2:11

Let me close out this little study with the inspired words from the infallible King James Bible that are found in 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

 

Read them slowly and think about what they are clearly saying. Let these words sink down into your heart and mind and simply believe what God tells us.

 

1 Corinthians 1:26-31

 

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 

27 But GOD HATH CHOSEN the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and GOD HATH CHOSEN the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, HATH GOD CHOSEN, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE.

30 But OF HIM ARE YE IN Christ Jesus, who OF GOD is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, HE THAT GLORIETH, LET HIM GLORY IN THE LORD."

ALL of grace, believing the Book.

God bless,

Will Kinney



Corporate Election? Or Individual Election?


Jimmy L. says:  "I believe in our corporate election "in Christ", or, "in the Son"; ". . . in the beloved." I do not believe that the holy scriptures teach the election of particular men.


Hi Jimmy. Maybe you should read your Bible a little more carefully. You are wrong.  God DOES choose individuals. 


1 Chronicles 28:6  And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: FOR I HAVE CHOSEN HIM TO BE MY SON, AND I WILL BE HIS FATHER.


Psalms 65:4 Blessed is THE MAN WHOM THOU CHOOSETH, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.


Psalms 78:70 HE CHOSE DAVID also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:


Psalms 105:26 He sent Moses his servant; and AARON WHOM HE HAD CHOSEN. 


Psalms 106:23 Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not MOSES HIS CHOSEN stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.


Nehemiah 9:7 Thou art the Lord the God, WHO DIDST CHOOSE ABRAM, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;


Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: FOR HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:  


Acts 22:14-15 The GOD of our fathers HATH CHOSEN THEE, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest the voice of his mouth, For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.


 Romans 16:13  Salute Rufus CHOSEN in the Lord, and his mother and mine.


More Notes from the Internet -


Again and again the "free will" religionists show how little they know their Bible.


Rich R. reveals more of his Biblical Illiteracy, asking:  "Calvinists what did Jesus began to preach? repent or election?"


Rich, Jesus himself taught the truth of election in many places.


"Many be called but FEW CHOSEN." Matthew 20:16


"And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but FOR THE ELECT'S SAKE, WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN, he hath shortened the days."  Mark 13:20


"YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."  John 15:16


"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, therefore the world hateth you."  John 15:19


" For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive THE VERY ELECT." Matthew 24:24


"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."  Matthew 24:31


"And shall not God avenge HIS OWN ELECT, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?"  Luke 18:7


For much more on this see "Did we choose God or did He choose us?


 

http://brandplucked.webs.com/godchoseyou.htm

Return to articles - 

http://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm

 

 

For additional reading see Calvinism and the King James Bible -


http://brandplucked.webs.com/calvinismkjb.htm

 

Which will also give you the link to my article - 

Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET, Jehovah Witness NWT etc. are  the new "Vatican Versions"


http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm

 

Great Sermon (5 minutes) by Elder D.J. Ward - God is Sovereign

"If Jehovah goes after ya, He's comin' back with ya"

"Were it not that God had chosen some, heaven would have none."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9oQQnCjbIw


 

 

God is NOT a Schizophrenic

 

12 minute Video on Unconditional Election


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfyU1rF0Wcc&feature=share

 

 

Excellent teaching. Only problem is, he (like John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, James White, John Piper, etc.) he does not have nor believe in ANY Bible in ANY language - including "the" Greek and "the" Hebrew - IS or ever was the complete and inerrant words of God.


The irony is that so many present day Calvinists have rejected the Reformation text of the King James Bible and are now promoting the Vatican supervised versions like the ESV, NASB, NET, NIV, Holman, etc.


These Vatican supervised versions (I can prove it) diminish and corrupt the very doctrines of sovereign grace we say we believe in. He even quotes some of these fake bibles that undermine these truths, and seems oblivious to it. I deal with them in my article.


Are you willing to look at the evidence?


See Calvinism (Monergism) and the King James Bible.


http://brandplucked.webs.com/calvinismkjb.htm


"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8


"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Corinthians 14:38


If you wish to discuss these things, come join us on Facebook Calvinism and the King James Bible.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/575154815830000/


God bless.


 

 

 



?For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.:  Romans 10:13