More Dealing with the Bible Agnostics
Galatians 2:21 “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ IS DEAD in vain.”
Gino posts: “Also, Gal 2:21 teaches that God's grace can be frustrated and that Christ is still dead in the KJV.
The ESV tells us not to nullify the Grace of God in the Context of vain good works which is a correct idea and states the reason as being that if that were the case (hypothetical situation) then Christ died for no purpose. Your Bible is not infallible, it is weakly translated in places, and in error in others." (End of comments by Gino)
First of all, Gino has a too vivid imagination. And secondly he really should expand his limited vocabulary of the English language. He sees things that simply are not there - like “Christ is STILL dead” - which is nowhere found in the text of the King James Bible nor any other version I am aware of.
And secondly, Gino obviously does not understand the concept of synonyms - “to frustrate” means “to nullify” and “in vain” means “for no purpose”.
Another thing you need to know about Gino is this. He does not believe that ANY Bible IS the infallible words of God and he “prefers” the new Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV and NASB. He is also a Greekophile who thinks the UBS/Nestle-Aland/Vatican Combined “interconfessional” Vatican supervised versions are the best that are out there in Bible Babblelonia Land today.
When Gino has been backed into a corner over the Bible version issue, and has to face the fact that he really does not believe in an infallible Bible in ANY language, he will might give you a little piece of his mind (all “sweetness and light” and “done in love”, of course) and tell you something like he posted in a forum saying:
“Will Kinney you are unreachable and God will deal with your unrepentance and blasphemy at judgement. If you think you know better than God no matter what version of his word you will not be honored for your sinful behavior in this group as i've documented previously and as is proven in your articals. You despise the truth and now have been made by God's sovereign decree to love a lie. Enjoy the judgement and wrath of God for your unrepentant sin.” (spelling errors are his)
So I guess Gino’s tactic is that when you can’t win the argument about the infallibility of the Bible, then start calling the King James Bible believer a blasphemer, an unrepentant sinner and call for the wrath of God to fall on his head.
Hey, wait a minute...I thought it was all those KJB believers that were supposed to be the mean and nasty ones... Oh well.... in any event -
The King James Bible correctly reads: "I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, THEN Christ is dead in vain.”
Gino tells us that the word "FRUSTRATE" is wrong and the correct word should be the ESV's "NULLIFY".
Let's take a closer look at what the English word "frustrate" actually means -
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language -
frus·trat·ed, frus·trat·ing, frus·trates
1. To prevent from accomplishing a purpose or fulfilling a desire; thwart:
2. To cause feelings of discouragement or bafflement in.
3. To make ineffectual or invalid; NULLIFY.
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary 11th edition -
a (1) : to make ineffectual : bring to nothing (2) : impede, obstruct
b : to make invalid or of no effect
Collins English Dictionary -
to frustrate 1. to hinder or prevent (the efforts, plans, or desires) of; thwart
Macmillan Dictionary -
Frustrate - to prevent someone or something from succeeding
Wordsmyth English Dictionary -
to prevent or NULLIFY (an act or achievement).
similar words: - abort, cancel, NULLIFY, prevent, undo, void
Not only does the King James Bible correctly say “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” But so also the following Bible translations - The Bill Bible 1671, Mace New Testament 1729 - “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God”, Whiston’s Primitive N.T. 1745 “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God: for if righteousness be by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”, Worsley Version 1770, The Clarke N.T. 1795, The Revised Translation 1815, Webster’s translation 1833, Lamsa's 1933 translation of the Syriac Peshitta, The Pickering N.T. 1840, The Hussey N.T. 1845, The Commonly Received Version 1851 - "I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God", The Dillard N.T. 1885, The Clarke New Testament 1913, The Amplified Bible 1987 - “I do not set aside and invalidate and FRUSTRATE and nullify the grace (unmerited favor) of God. For if justification (righteousness, acquittal from guilt) comes through [observing the ritual of] the Law, then Christ (the Messiah) died groundlessly and to no purpose and IN VAIN.”, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century Version 1994, the Third Millennium Bible 1998 - “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.", The Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 and the Bond Slave Version 2012.
Barnes Notes on the N.T.
I do not frustrate the grace of God. The word rendered "frustrate" \~ayetw\~ means, properly, to displace, abrogate, abolish; then to make void, to render null, Mark 7:9; Luke 7:30; 1 Corinthians 1:19. The phrase, "the grace of God," here refers to the favour of God manifested in the plan of salvation by the gospel, and is another name for the gospel. The sense is, that Paul would not take any measures, or pursue any course, that would render that vain or inefficacious.
John Gill - I do not frustrate the grace of God…Or "cast it away", as the Vulgate Latin version reads it; or "deny it", as the Syriac and Arabic; or "despise, reject, and make it void", as other versions; meaning either the grace of the Son of God in giving himself for him, just mentioned by him; or the particular doctrine of grace, justification, he is speaking of, as proceeding from the grace of God, upon the foot of the righteousness of Christ; or the whole Gospel, all and each of which would be denied, despised, rejected, made null and void, be in vain, fallen and departed from, should justification be sought for by the works of the law.”
Jamieson, Fausset and Brown - “I do not frustrate the grace of God--I do not make it void, as thou, Peter, art doing by Judaizing. for--justifying the strong expression "FRUSTRATE” or "make void."
Matthew Henry - “The apostle concludes this discourse with acquainting us that by the doctrine of justification by faith in Christ, without the works of the law (which he asserted, and others opposed), he avoided two great difficulties, which the contrary opinion was loaded with:-- 1. That he did not FRUSTRATE the grace of God, which the doctrine of the justification by the works of the law did; for, as he argues (Romans 11:6), If it be of works, it is no more of grace. 2. That he did not FRUSTRATE the death of Christ; whereas, if righteousness come by the law, then it must follow that Christ has died in vain; for, if we look for salvation by the law of Moses, then we render the death of Christ needless: for to what purpose should he be appointed to die, if we might have been saved without it?”
People’s New Testament - “I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God. He would do so, if he went back to the Jewish law, and trusted in it. If it gave righteousness, then the gospel was not needed, and Christ died in vain.”
Part Two - “then Christ IS DEAD in vain.”
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ IS DEAD in vain.” Galatians 2:21
“IS DEAD” - This is a hypothetical statement that IF righteousness comes by the law (and it does not), then Christ IS dead in vain. As we are taught in Scripture, the death of Christ in fact DID accomplish the redemption of God’s people and by His death the law itself was put to death and nailed to the cross. (Eph. 2:15; Col.2:14; Romans 7:6 KJB), and his resurrection was the proof that He had finished the work and God approved of it.
Our redemption is completed and sure because of the death of Christ and His resurrection. It was His resurrection that was the proof that the redemption price had been paid in full and had been accepted by a holy God.
The opening verse of this epistle to the Galatians declares - "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD)"
Most bible translations today, and even some before the King James Bible (Tyndale, Coverdale, Geneva), say something like “Christ DIED in vain” or “Christ HAS DIED in vain”, so the KJB translators were well aware of this possible translation.
The verb used here is an aorist, but there is no single, correct way to always translate the aorist tense verb. It all depends on the context. It is often translated in such a way as to indicate the entrance into a state of being and so it can communicate a present reality, and all versions do this same thing with aorist verbs in other contexts.
The KJB’s “IS DEAD” is presenting a hypothetical situation because the apostle says "IF righteousness come by the law" - and it doesn't - THEN Christ IS DEAD in vain. It would be as if he never rose from the dead. But the Bible says that He was raised again for our justification. (Romans 4:25)
The argument here is much like the hypothetical argument presented in 1 Corinthians 15:12-17, where we also see a perfect passive verb translated as a present state that is contrary to fact.
There we read: "Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then Christ IS NOT RISEN: And if Christ BE NOT RISEN, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain....For if the dead rise not, then IS NOT Christ RAISED: And if Christ BE NOT RAISED, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
This is a hypothetical situation presented as a present reality. But, thank God, it is not what really happened. Some of the Bible translations that also have these verses reading "then Christ IS not RISEN", meaning a hypothetical present reality, are Tyndale, Coverdale, The Great Bible, Matthew's Bible, the Bishops' Bible, the Geneva Bible, The Beza N.T. 1599, Mace N.T. 1729, Whiston's N.T. 1745, Wesley's N.T. 1755, Haweis N.T. 1795, Alford's N.T. 1870, Darby 1890, The Word of Yah 1993, The NKJV 1982, The Revised Webster Bible 1995, The Resurrection Life N.T. 2005, Revised Geneva Bible 2005, The Faithful N.T. 2009, The Hebraic Translation Scriptures 2010 and the Bond Slave Version of 2012 to name a few.
“our Lord Jesus Christ, Who GAVE HIMSELF FOR OUR SINS, that he might deliver us from this present evil world” - Galatians 1:4
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live...I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and GAVE HIMSELF for me.” Galatians 2:20
“O Foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, CRUCIFIED among you?” Galatians 3:1
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, BEING MADE A CURSE FOR US: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.”
“God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To REDEEM them that were under the law” Galatians 4:4-5
“But God forbid that I should glory, save IN THE CROSS of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world IS CRUCIFIED unto me, and I unto the world.” Galatians 6:14
When many modern versions tell us in this verse that “Christ DIED in vain”, it tells us nothing more than this - Christ died. If a person DIED, then it is only natural to say that he IS DEAD. You STILL have to mention the resurrection for us to know that He is now alive again.
Not only does the King James Bible say “THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN” but so also do the Great Bible 1540 - “For yf ryghtewesnes come of the lawe, then Christ IS DEAD in vayne.”, the Bishops’ Bible 1568 - “For yf ryghteousnesse come of the lawe, then Christe IS DEAD in vayne.”, The Bill Bible 1671, Whiston’s New Testament 1745 - “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness be by the law, then Christ IS DEAD in vain.”, the Worsley Version 1770, The Revised Translation 1815, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century Version 1994 -”then Christ IS DEAD in vain.”, the Third Millennium Bible 1998 and the English Jubilee Bible 2010 - “for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ IS DEAD in vain.” and The Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 - "then Mashiach is dead in vain."
Some Bible Commentators
Albert Barnes’ Commentary - “To feel the need of a Saviour it is necessary to feel that we are lost and ruined sinners; that we have no merit upon which we can rely; and that we are entirely dependent on the mercy of God for salvation. Thus feeling, we shall receive the salvation of the gospel with thankfulness and joy, and show that in regard to us Christ IS NOT “DEAD IN VAIN.”
John Calvin Commentary - “We know that he had to deal with men, who did not entirely reject the grace of Christ, but ascribed the half of salvation to works. In opposition to them he argues, that “if righteousness is by the law, THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN”; and by so doing, he certainly does not allow to works one drop of righteousness.”
Matthew Poole’s Annotations on the Holy Bible - “If the most proper effect of the death of Christ be taken away, then his death IS made causeless, and to no purpose.”
Thomas Coke Commentary - “for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ IS dead in vain; for in that case righteousness and salvation might have been obtained without him.”
Chrysostom - “ if the law can justify or make us righteous, the death of Christ IS superfluous.”
I believe the King James Bible is always right and there are NO errors in it, but only those to whom God has given faith to believe in a real Bible in print between two covers that we can hold in our hands and believe every word IS the inspired and infallible words of God will see this.
Those who refuse to believe in the infallibility of ANY Bible in ANY language (including “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek) will always find fault with the King James Bible position, no matter what you show them.
They are usually blinded by the spirit of deception behind their Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman bogus bibles that NOBODY believes ARE the infallible word of God, or they prefer to be their own final authority and follow the dictates of their own minds and personal opinions.
“For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?” 1 Corinthians 1:19-20
Recommended additional reading -
Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET etc. are the new "Vatican Versions"
All of grace, believing the Book - the Authorized King James Holy Bible.
Return to Articles - http://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm
Notes from the Internet -
Response from Gino after seeing the article - More "sweetness and light, done in love"
Gino Vincenzini responds to the article: "Will Kinney knows we modern version users are right and will never admit it. He's a stiffnecked gravewasher. He's written an article to about me to his own self embarrassment. He cannot be reasoned with and that makes him a liar and a hypocrite because he knows the truth and he rejects it because it doesn't line up with his sacred kjvo beliefs, (nevermind that it CONTRADICTS the Bible in ANY translation (KJV included)). Have a nice life Will, enjoy judgement day when God himself holds you to the word you're rejecting for a 17th century anglican translation to the point of repeatedly committing sin against him to protect a book whose words will pass away while the actual Greek and Hebrew remain."