#1. “Do you elevate the English of the KJB above the Hebrew and the Greek?”
#2. “Why did you Insult me?”
#3. “Unfeigned Faith”
# 4. “Only Saved if use the KJV?”
The four, brief topics in this article are taken from a recent discussion I had with other Christians in a John MacArthur forum called Shepherds’ Fellowship. I will post two of them here, and the other two in a separate article. The sections I discuss here are found in this thread:
http://www.shepherdsfellowship.org/forums/topics/thread/?id=4977
As a King James Bible believer, I disagree with most of the brethren over there regarding the issue of the existence of a complete and 100% true Holy Bible. However I’m sure many of them love the Lord Jesus and I want to say that they treated me far more fairly and graciously than I have been at many other Forums where the truth of the King James Bible has been brought up.
#1. “Do you elevate the English of the King James Bible above the Hebrew and the Greek?
One brother asked me this question that I have seen come up from time to time. He posted: “Will, Can you help me understand your position? I have read a lot of your stuff and appreciate your work. Do you equate or elevate the English words of the KJV above the Hebrew and Greek words it is translated from? Blessings, John
My Response: “Hi brother John. Very good question. As you undoubtedly know, there are several different Hebrew texts and numerous, very different Greek texts out there. Versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, NET etc. often reject the clear Hebrew readings, and not even in the same places, and they all use very different Greek texts (that keep changing and do not even agree with each other) from the one that underlies the KJB.
The underlying Hebrew and Greek texts used by the King James Bible translators have never changed. This is in contrast to versions like the NASB, NIV, NKJV, ESV etc. that all keep getting revised and they change not only their own English texts by literally hundreds of words from one edition to the next, but also change their underlying Hebrew and Greek texts as well. (By the way, if challenged, I can prove what I just said)
So, since I very definitely do believe in the absolute sovereignty of God in both history and in the salvation of His elect people, I also believe He meant what He said about preserving His words in "the book of the LORD".
I believe God guided the KJB translators not only to the correct underlying Hebrew and Greek texts (after all, only God knows for sure what He inspired to be put in His book) but also guided them as to the best possible meaning in the English language.
Version like the NKJV which claims to be based on the TR underlying the KJB (which is not always true) radically change and pervert what I believe is the intended meaning in many places.
For example, changing "superstitious" to "very religious" (Acts 17:22) or "heretic" to "a divisive person" (Titus 3:10) or "corrupt the word of God" to "peddle the word of God" (2 Cor. 2:17)
(I have written articles defending the KJB in these places also)
Acts 17:22 - http://brandplucked.webs.com/acts1722bowelpissbas.htm
Titus 3:10 - http://brandplucked.webs.com/hereticordivisive.htm
2 Cor. 2:17 - http://brandplucked.webs.com/2cor217corruptpeddle.htm
So, to give you a clear Yes or No to your question, Yes, I believe the English of the King James Bible is the final written authority from God and the Standard by which all other translations should be measured.
Other translations should use the same specific Hebrew and Greek texts that underlie the King James Bible, and try to communicate the same meaning as found in the English text of the KJB.
Thanks for a good and thoughtful question.
Will K
#2. "Why did you insult me?"
I had previously posted to a man named Nathan: “Nathan, we are not on the same page at all. You first said you are not a bible agnostic and you said you have the common belief in the infallibility and inerrancy of the bible.
Which "the Bible" are you talking about? Is your "the bible" a real and tangible Book that a person can hold in their hands, read and believe every word? Apparently it is not the KJB and not even the NASB, so what is it? Is it selected readings chosen by you that are found among various contradictory versions and not in print yet?
Is it a mystical, hypothetical bible that exists only in your own mind? Do you happen to have a copy of this "infallible and inerrant Bible" we can see so we can compare it to the KJB or the NIV, NASB or whatever version one might be using so we can see the differences and similarities?"
Nathan says: [quote]I did not know when I signed up for this forum I would be subject to such insults.[/quote]
Hi Nathan. How did I "insult" you? I didn't use swear words; I didn't call you stupid or an idiot. I said nothing about your Mother. All I did was to intellectually and logically challenge your own statements about your belief in the inerrant, inspired and infallible Bible you say you believe in. Why is this an insult?
Aren't we supposedly here to sharpen one another's thinking and grow in the truth of our Lord and Saviour?
Nathan says: [quote]I am stepping away from this conversation, not becase I can not defend my position, but because it is utter foolishness to claim the KJV is the only inspired word of God. It has been found and wanting by many who know more than you or I.
I do not believe in agree to disagree because there is always one who is right and one who isn't. Nathan[/quote]
Brother Nathan, at the risk of you thinking I am insulting you (I am not) I think it is precisely because you cannot defend your stated position that you are stepping away from this conversation.
Maybe you could tell us why you think it is foolishness to claim the King James Bible is the only inspired word of God? Do you know of just one PROVABLE error in the King James Bible? I have heard many allegations over the years, but have never seen one that is indisputably an error in the King James Bible. However, I DO know of many provable errors in ones like the NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, ESV etc.
By the way, your statement about what I believe concerning the KJB is not completely accurate. All Scripture is inspired of God. If it is Scripture, then it is inspired. There is some of this inspired Scripture in all bible versions out there no matter how inferior they may be in so many other ways. The gospel is still found in them all and God can use them to bring His people to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
What I said I believe more exactly is that the King James Bible is the only complete, inspired and 100% true Bible.
If you think the KJB is not, then could you give it a shot at telling us exactly which one (if any) IS the complete, inspired and 100% true Bible? Or will this once again put you into a position you cannot defend?
Brother, it is a simple, documented fact that most Christians today do NOT believe that any Bible in any language IS or ever was the complete, inspired and infallible words of God.
Here are several quotes from non-KJB only Evangelicals who admit and lament this fact.
http://brandplucked.webs.com/thebiblenotinspired.htm
Now, you claim you DO believe in "the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible". So, where can I get a copy?
Thanks,
Will Kinney
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Notes from the Internet -
Al, another bible agnostic, writes: "Again, these sophomoric terms: Bible agnostic, Bible corrector, etc. are attempts to discredit the views of the other side. They're immature rhetoric. "
Al, you may think these terms are sophomoric and immature, but they are accurate and describe exactly how you fellas view the Bible. What would you call a person who does not believe that any Bible in any language is or ever was the complete, inspired and 100% true words of God? Oh, I know... "a kindred spirit". Well, I call them a Bible agnostic - that is, they do not know for sure what God's words are or where to find them. People like John MacArthur has said of certain passages things like "Well, we just don't know if these words belong in the Bible or not." THAT is a Bible agnostic.
What would you call some goofball who comes to a passage like 1 Timothy 2:12 and comes up with the bright idea that it should read "I don't allow a WIFE to teach", even though it goes against every bible translation out there? If this is not a Bible corrector, then I don't know what would be.
So, get used to my calling you guys who do not believe in the infallibility of any Bible "bible agnostics". That is what you are and others should be aware of this fact. You have NO final written authority from God, but instead have made your own minds and personal preferences your "final authority", subject to change at any moment of course.
What do you think God would call you guys who "correct" the Bible and don't believe He has given us "the book of the LORD" and think that He lied to us when He said "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."? Any ideas spring to mind?