“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.: Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.: Romans 10:13
“Free will” Arminians always confuse Biblical terms and end up creating lots of Contradictions
Peter Z. posts: "It is YOU who has heardened his heart toward these scriptures, Will Kinney! In Romans 10:13, note: One must FIRST call while unsaved BEFORE God saves. Note again the phrase "shall be" is in the future tense as a cause and effect term. DEAL WITH IT. Also see John 1:12 and 5:24."
Hi Peter, This is where you "free will" Arminians run into some serious problems and you end up having a bible full of contradictions.
Part of your problem is that you do not see or know the difference between what is called Positional truth - who we are in Christ -, and Practical truth - our earthly experience.
Our earthly experience (practical truth) is the result of and follows from who we are in Christ and based on what he has ALREADY done for us (his elect) at the cross and in the Resurrection (positional truth)
The Bible says that God's chosen were IN Christ when he died and when he rose from the dead. We were QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH CHIRST, and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST." (Ephesians 2:5) This is a past event that will never be repeated again. Are you sitting together in heavenly places in Christ at this moment? You are, if you were in Christ when he died and rose again.
Romans 8:30 reaffirms this truth by telling us: "Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, THEM HE ALSO GLORIFIED."
Colossians 3:1-3 further states: "If ye then BE RISEN WITH CHRIST, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. FOR YE ARE DEAD, and your life is hid WITH CHRIST in God."
Our personal “salvation” in time is the RESULT of our already having been QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH CHRIST AND being RAISED TOGETHER WITH HIM” and having already been REDEEMED AND RECONCILED TO GOD AT THE CROSS.
It is only AFTER we are told these truths in Ephesians 2:4-7 that we are then told “For by grace are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and THAT not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
The Bible tells us that we WERE RECONCILED (past tense) and REDEEMED" (past tense) and this happened once and for all at the cross. It is not a process. Jesus said he finished the work the Father gave him to do.
Our Lord tells us in John 4:34 “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me AND TO FINISH HIS WORK.”
During his high priestly prayer as recorded in John 17 he prays “I have glorified thee on the earth: I HAVE FINISHED THE WORK WHICH THOU GAVEST ME TO DO.”
And as most of us know, his final words on the cross, where he in fact redeemed his people, were “IT IS FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” John 19:30
You probably won't read it because you don't WANT to see the truth of these things. But here is a BIBLICAL study on the Doctrine of Reconciliation and the Scriptures tell us WHEN this took place. It is NOT a process. You were either reconciled at the cross, or you never will be.
You were either redeemed at the cross, or you never will be.
You are correct in saying that Romans 10:13 uses a future tense verb. "For whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.”
But this refers to our practical experience of being saved. Only those whom God has previously chosen and predestinated will be "saved" in the time of their experience here on earth.
The apostle Paul had just got done teaching in the previous chapter (Romans 9:7-11) that
"7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
AND that God has mercy on whom he will have mercy and he hardens whom he will harden. "So then it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but OF GOD that sheweth mercy. (Romans 9:16)
And remember, it is God who is the Potter and we are the lump of clay,
Romans 9:18-24 King James Bible.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering THE VESSELS OF WRATH FITTED TO DESTRUCTION:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on THE VESSELS OF MERCY, WHICH HE HAD AFORE PREPARED UNTO GLORY,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
So, when the Bible talks about "whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED", this can only happen to people who are living now in time here on this earth.
But it is only the elect of God, chosen in Christ BEFORE the foundation of the world, and PREDESTINATED unto the adoption of children, and QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, and who were RAISED UP TOGETHER with him and are NOW seated in the heavenly places IN Christ (Positional truth) who will ever call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.
So if we have already died with Christ and been raised with him and redeemed to God and reconciled to him AT THE CROSS, then in what way in time and in our experience are we "SAVED"?
Notice carefully what it says in Romans 5:9-10
Romans 5:9-10 King James Bible.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, WE WERE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON, much more, BEING RECONCILED, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE."
Notice that we have already been justified by his blood, and we were already reconciled to God by the death of his Son (THAT is when it happened), then we SHALL BE SAVED from the coming wrath, and we shall be saved by his life.
Contrary to what is being taught in most churches today, the Bible never says that we are saved by the death of Christ. We were redeemed by his blood. We were reconciled to God by his death. But we are saved by his LIFE!
We are saved from the lies of Satan and from a vain manner of living. We now know the truth of what God has already done for us at the cross. We now know that we are his children and we learn how he wants us to live our lives by walking with him and obeying him. We now know what life if about and where we are headed, and we know Who wins in the end.
And one of the most important things about being saved is that we can now begin to KNOW God Himself. "And this is eternal life, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
"Yea, doubtless, and I count all things but loss for THE EXCELLENCY OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST JESUS MY LORD, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ." Philippians 3:8
"And we know that the Son of God is come, AND HATH GIVEN US AN UNDERSTANDING, THAT WE MAY KNOW HIM THAT IS TRUE, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, AND ETERNAL LIFE." 1 John 5:20
But this "salvation" is not the same thing as our having been redeemed to God by his blood, and having already been reconciled to God by the death of his Son.
This "salvation" is something God's elect begin to experience in time and in our lives as we learn the truth of God of who he is and what he has done for us, and begin to walk with him here on this earth.
It is because you, like so many others, confuse biblical terms and words, and try to make words like "redemption" and "reconciliation" and "propitiation" and "justification" and "sanctification" ALL mean SAVED, (when they are not the same things at all), that you end up in hopeless confusion and contradiction.
Your "free will" system of belief ALWAYS leads to contradictions and you end up making a Liar out of the Lord Jesus Christ.
IF there is one person, let alone multitudes of people, who does NOT call upon the Lord to be saved, then why is such a person lost?
Was it because of his unbelief or his loving darkness rather than light, or his rebellious "free will" that he did not do so?
Then you are attributing "salvation" and redemption and reconciliation and justification to MAN and his own ability and not to God.
Either the lost and condemned people who are not "saved" in time were NOT among those whom the Father had given to the Son, and were NOT among those God chose in Christ and predestinated before the foundation of the world, and they were NOT a vessel of mercy which God had AFORE PREPARED UNTO GLORY, and they were NOT one whom the Son WILLED TO QUICKEN (John 5:21)
OR both God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord are LIARS and the purpose of God according to election and our having been predestinated to the adoption of children are false and Jesus Christ lied when he said "ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6:37), and "And this is the Father's will, which hath sent me, that of ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day." (John 6:39) and "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM." (John 17:2)
Either face the fact that your "I chose of my own free will to believe" theory is WRONG and a lie, OR that the Bible is full of contradictions and both God the Father and the Son of God lied to us and both are colossal failures who "wanted so badly to save everybody, but were unable to accomplish their collective "wills" because of puny, rebellious and sinful man's refusal to cooperate with Him.
Pick one or the other, Peter.
By the way, regarding John 1:12-13, try to study the Bible more in depth and see how God uses the word "receive" and recognize that the new birth (as recorded in John 1:13) is NOT OF THE WILLL OF MAN, nor of the will of the flesh (your religion) but OF GOD.