Another King James Bible Believer

John 7:8-10 Did Jesus Lie?

John 7:8-10 Did Jesus lie or tell the truth?

 

 

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John 7:8-10 KJB -  "Go ye up unto this feast: I  go not YET unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.  When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.  But when his brethren were gone up, THEN went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret."  

 

ESV (NIV 2011 edition, NASB) - "You go up to the feast. I AM NOT GOING up to this feast, for my time is not yet fully come. After saying this he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, the HE ALSO WENT UP, not publicly but in private."

 

The reading of "not yet" (ουπω ) is that found in the vast Majority of all Greek texts including P66, P75, Vaticanus, L,T, W, Delta and in some Old Latin copies and in the Syriac Peshitta, Harclean, Palestinian and the Coptic Sahidic and Boharic ancient versions. 


 The old NIVs of 1973, 1978 and 1984 also read this way saying: "I am NOT YET going up to this Feast".  However now the 2011 has once again changed its underlying Greek texts and now has Jesus lying to His brothers by saying: "You go to this festival. I AM NOT GOING up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come." 

The reading of "NOT going" is ouk (
οὐκ) as opposed to oupw (ουπω), and is the reading found in the Sinaitic manuscript and D.  Even Westcott and Hort and the previous Nestle Aland critical texts (4th edition 1934) used to follow the Greek reading found in the King James Bible an in all Reformation bibles - "not YET going", but later on the Nestle Aland, (21st and 27th  editions) and UBS  (United Bible Society - the Vatican/Evangelical “interconfessional text”) changed their minds and have now gone with the other reading that is not even the oldest reading, and the result is that  many of these new “Catholic versions” have Jesus LYING to His disciples by saying that He is NOT going to the Feast and then turning around and going to the Feast.

This textual change is not due to any "new manuscript discoveries" at all. It's the same information they have always had. They just happened to change their minds, and introduced a new text so you can buy the late$t in $cholar$hip Advance$.

See Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASBs are the new "Catholic" Vatican Versions here-

 http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm

 

"NOT going" 

Also agreeing with the new NIV 2011 and having Jesus say that He is NOT going to the feast and then He goes to the feast, are all the Catholic versions, Darby 1890, ASV 1901, RSV, NRSV 1989, ESV 2001-2011, the NASB, NET 2006, Common English bible 2011, Lexham English bible 2012, New Living Translation 2013. 

 

The Catholic Connection


ALL Catholic versions have our Lord saying He is NOT GOING to the feast, in verse 8, and then He GOES to the feast in verse 10, thus making Him a liar.  The Douai-Rheims bible of 1582 says: “Go you up to this festival day: but I GO NOT UP TO THIS FESTIVAL DAY, because my time is not accomplished.” Then in verse 10 it says: “But after his brethren were gone up, then HE ALSO WENT UP TO THE FEAST, not openly, but, as it were, in secret.” So also read the Catholic Douay 1950, the St. Joseph New American bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985.  

 

Remember, the Vatican has a formal agreement with the UBS/Nestle-Aland Critical Text group to create an "inter confessional" text to help unite "the separated brethren" and the UBS text is under the Vatican's supervision.  

 

If you don't believe it, then see the documented proof in my article "Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET etc. are  the new "Vatican Versions" -

http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm

 

"NOT YET going"

 

Bible translations that agree with the KJB reading that Jesus said He was NOT YET going, and then later on He DID go, are Tyndale 1534 - "I will NOT GO UP YET vnto this feast", Coverdale 1535, The Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549,  Bishops's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, John Wesley 1755, Worsley Version 1770, Thomas Haweis N.T. 1795, Revised Version 1885, Youngs 1898, Rotherham 1902, Goodspeed N.T. 1923, Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Peshitta 1933, J.B. Phillips 1962, New Life Version 1969, The New Berkeley Version 1969, the NKJV 1982, The Word of Yah 1993, Interlinear Greek N.T. 1997 (Larry Pierce), Complete Jewish Bible 1998, New International Readers Version 1998, Lawrie Translation 1998, Faithful N.T. 2009, the Holman Standard of 2009, English Majority Text Version 2009, Jubilee Bible 2010, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010, Names of God Bible 2011, Expanded Bible 2011, Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011, Conservative Bible 2011, World English Bible 2012, the brand new ISV 2014 (International Standard Version) - "I am NOT GOING to this festival YET", Modern English Version 2014, and the Holy Bible Modern Literal Version 2015.

The Living Bible 1971 - “ You go on, and I’LL COME LATER when it is the right time.”

The Voice 2012 - “ Go on to the feast without Me; I am NOT GOING RIGHT NOW  because My time is not yet at hand.”

 

Foreign language Bible that have Jesus saying He is NOT GOING to the feast, are the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569, Cipriano de Valera 1602, Reina Valeras 1909 - 2011, -”yo NO SUBO AUN aún á esta fiesta”, the Portuguese Almeida - “eu não subo ainda a esta festa”, the French Martin 1744 and French Ostervald 1998 -”pour moi, je n'y monte pas encore,” the German Luther Bible 1545 and German Schlachter 2000 -”Ich will noch nicht hinaufgehen auf dieses Fest” and the Italian Diodati 1649 and the New Diodati 1991 - “io non salgo ancora a questa festa” to name but a few.

The Modern Greek Bible - “Σεις αναβητε εις την εορτην ταυτην· εγω δεν αναβαινω ετι εις την εορτην ταυτην, διοτι ο καιρος μου δεν επληρωθη ετι.” = “I do NOT YET GO”

And the Modern Hebrew Bible - עלו אתם לחג את החג אני לא אעלה אל החג הזה כי עתי לא מלאה עד עתה׃ = "I am NOT YET GOING"

 

The Ever Changing NIVs

 

NIV 1973, 1978 and 1984 editions all had: - "You go up to the Feast. I am NOT YET going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come." Having said this, he stayed in Galilee.  However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret."

But the "new" NIV 2011 changed their underlying Greek text and now reads  - "You go to the festival. I AM NOT GOING up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come."  After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret."  

 

DAN WALACE'S NET VERSION  - The "Logic" of a Bible Agnostic in Action

 

Daniel Wallace's NET version has the Lord saying He is NOT going to the feast, and then going. But the thinking of such "scholars" is revealed in his own footnotes where he says: “Most mss (P66, 75 B L T W 070 0105 0250 Ë1,13 Ï sa), INCLUDING MOST OF THE BETTER WITNESSES have “not yet” here. Those with the reading "not" (ouk) are not as impressive ( D K 1241 al lat), BUT "OUK" IS THE MORE DIFFICULT READING HERE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT STANDS IN TENSION WITH V. 10."


So, in other words, because it absurdly makes our Lord Jesus Christ out to be a liar, and it is NOT found in "the better witnesses" or even the oldest manuscripts we have, therefore it must be the right reading!  Hellooooo, is anybody home? 

"hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Corinthians 1:20

 

Wilbur Pickering, who himself is not even a KJB onlyist, comments on this blunder: Serious Anomalies/Aberrations -John 7:8 oupw--P66, 75, B, E, F, G, H, L, N, T, W, X, D, Q, Y 070, 0105, 0141, 0250, f1, 13, Byz, Lect, syr p, h, pal, co sa "NOT YET" ; ouk -- À, D, K, P, lat, syr s, c , co bo "NOT".   Problem: Since Jesus did in fact go to the feast (and doubtless knew what He was going to do), the UBS text has the effect of ascribing a falsehood to Him.

Discussion: Since the UBS editors usually attach the highest value to P75 and B, isn't it strange that they reject them in this case? Here is Metzger's explanation: "The reading ["not yet"] was introduced at an early date (it is attested by P66,75) in order to alleviate the inconsistency between ver. 8 and ver. 10" (p. 216). So, they rejected P66,75 and B (as well as 99% of the MSS) because they preferred the "inconsistency". NASB, RSV, NEB and TEV stay with the eclectic text here. (end of comments by Dr. Pickering.)

Also in just these three verses we see that the word “this” of THIS FEAST is omitted by Vaticanus but found in Sinaiticus, and the NASB and NIV both omit the word, while "UNTO THEM" is in the NASB and Vaticanus, but not in the NIV or Sinaiticus, and "AS IT WERE" is in Vaticanus and the NASB, but not in Sinaiticus or the NIV. This is the character of these two manuscripts and bible versions in a nutshell.

Will Kinney

“If we would destroy the Christian religion, we must first of all destroy man’s belief in the Bible.”  Voltaire - ex French philosopher and former atheist.

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