Another King James Bible Believer

Genesis 30:11 "a troop cometh" -  Pagan words in modern versions.

Genesis 30:11 KJB - "And Leah said, A TROOP COMETH; and she called his name Gad." 



NASB, NET - "Then Leah said, "HOW FORTUNATE!" So she named him Gad."


ESV, RSV - "And Leah said, “GOOD FORTUNE HAS COME!” so she called his name Gad."


NIV, Holman - " Then Leah said, “WHAT GOOD FORTUNE!” So she named him Gad." 


Names of God Bible 2011 - "Leah said, “I’VE BEEN LUCKY!” So she called him Gad [Luck].


There are several problems with these new versions. Some very unbiblical words are being introduced into the modern bibles that are not found at all in the KJB. Words like Destiny, Luck, Fortune, Fortunate, and Fate. These are all pagan concepts and are not found in the King James Bible.


Examples:


Fortunate - “from Latin fortunatus "prospered, prosperous; lucky, happy," past participle of fortunare "to make prosperous," from fortuna (see fortune). 

Fortuna (LatinFortūna, equivalent to the Greek goddess Tyche) was the goddess of fortune and personification of luck in Roman religion. She might bring good luck or bad: she could be represented as veiled and blind, as in modern depictions of Justice, and came to represent life's capriciousness. She was also a goddess of fateHer father was said to be Jupiter and like him, she could also be bountiful (Copia). As Annonaria she protected grain supplies. June 11 was sacred to her: on June 24 she was given cult at the festival of Fors Fortuna." -  Samuel Ball Platner and Thomas Ashby, A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome,; (London: Oxford University Press)1929. 



Fortune - "chance, luck as a force in human affairs," from Old French fortune "lot, good fortune, misfortune" (12c.), from Latin fortuna "chance, fate, good luck," from fors (genitive fortis) "chance, luck," Often personified as a goddess” (Etymology Dictionary)

Fortunate - “having good luck : enjoying good fortune; coming or happening because of good luck” (Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary)

Destiny - “from Old French destinée "purpose, intent, fate, destiny; that which is destined, The sense is of "that which has been firmly established, as by fate.” (Etymology Dictionary)

Destiny - “a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency” (Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary)


Fate - “from Latin fata, "prophetic declaration, oracle, prediction," thus "that which is ordained, destiny, fate," literally "thing spoken by the gods.” (Etymology Dictionary)

Fate - “a power that is believed to control what happens in the future.” The Fates - “the three goddesses who determine the course of human life in classical mythology.” (Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary)

Classical and European mythology features three goddesses dispensing fate, known as Moirai in Greek mythology, as Parcae in Roman mythology, and as Norns in Norse mythology. They determine the events of the world through the mystic spinning of threads that represent individual human fates. 

Lucky - “occurring by chance.” According to the classic Noah Webster's dictionary, Luck is a "purposeless, unpredictable and uncontrollable force that shapes events favorably or unfavorably for an individual, group or cause. The Romans believed the embodiment of luck as the goddess Fortuna.

The King James Bible uses none of these words. You will not find the words Fortune, Destiny, Fate or Luck in the King James Bible. But let’s see the progressive use of them in most modern versions today.


"FORTUNATE" NASB, ESV, NIV - Acts 26:2 - ""In regard to all the things of which I am accused by the Jews, I consider myself FORTUNATE, King Agrippa, that I am about to make my defense before you today" KJB - HAPPY


ESV - Ecclesiastes 4:2 "And I thought the dead who are already dead more FORTUNATE than the living who are still alive."  


DESTINY 


ESV, NASB, NIV Isaiah 65:11 - "But you who forsake the Lord, who forget my holy mountain, who set a table for FORTUNE and fill cups of mixed wine for DESTINY." KJB - THAT TROOP - THAT NUMBER.


Destiny in the NIV - 7 times - Psalm 73:17 - "till I entered the sanctuary of God; then I understood their final DESTINY.", Ecclesiastes 7:2 - "for death is the DESTINY of everyone", Ecclesiastes 9:2 -"All share a common DESTINY—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.", Ecclesiastes 9:3 The same DESTINY overtakes all.", Isaiah 65:11, Phillipians 3:19 - "Their DESTINY is destruction, their god is their stomach" 


NKJV - Lamentations 1:9 “Her uncleanness is in her skirts; She did not consider her DESTINY; Therefore her collapse was awesome”  KJB - "she remembereth not HER LAST END"


FATE


NIV 16 times - Numbers 16:29 "If these men die a natural death and suffer the FATE of all mankind, then the Lord has not sent me.", Esther 7:7, Job 12:5, Job 18:20, Job 20:29 - "Such is the FATE God allots the wicked, the heritage appointed for them by God.”, Job 21:17, Job 27: 13 - "“Here is the FATE God allots to the wicked, the heritage a ruthless man receives from the Almighty", Job 27:14, Psalm 49:3 "This is the FATE of those who trust in themselves", Ecclesiastes 2:14, 15; 3:19 - "Surely the FATE of human beings is like that of the animals; the same FATE awaits them both", Isaiah 14:16 " they ponder your FATE: “Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble", Jeremiah 49:20 and 50:45 - "The young of the flock will be dragged away; their pasture will be appalled at their FATE."


NASB 9 times - Numbers 16:29 "If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the FATE of all men, then the LORD has not sent me.", Job 18:20, Ecclesiastes 2:14, 15; 3:19 "For the FATE of the sons of men and the FATE of beasts is the same.", Ecclesiastes 9:2,3, and Luke 13:2 " And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this FATE?"


ESV 5 times - Numbers 16:20, Psalm 81:15 "Those who hate the Lord would cringe toward him, and their FATE would last forever.", Jeremiah 49:20, 50:45 "surely their fold shall be appalled at their FATE." and Lamentations 3:51 "my eyes cause me grief at the FATE of all the daughters of my city."  


NKJV FATE - 2 times Numbers 16:29 “If these men die naturally like all men, or if they are visited by the common FATE of all men, then the LORD has not sent me.”, Psalm 81:15 “The haters of the LORD would pretend submission to Him, But their FATE would endure forever.


LUCKY The Message has the word LUCKY in it some 22 times! It also has “FATE” 39 times. Example:  Ezekiel 7:10 ”Judgment Day! FATE has caught up with you.”, and DESTINY 3 times - Example:  Ecclesiastes 6:10 “Whatever happens, happens. Its DESTINY is fixed. You can't argue with FATE.”


Here are just a few of the uses of the word LUCKY in the Message  - Genesis 30:11, 35:4, Deuteronomy 33:29 " LUCKY Israel! Who has it as good as you? A people saved by GOD! ", 1 Kings 10:8; 2 Chronicles 9:7; Psalm 10:6 and 14 "But you know all about it-- the contempt, the abuse. I dare to believe that the luckless will get LUCKY someday in you. You won't let them down: orphans won't be orphans forever.", Psalm 32:1, 2 " Count yourself LUCKY-- GOD holds nothing against you and you're holding nothing back from him.", Psalm 41:2, Proverbs 22:26, Isaiah 7:21, Ecclesiastes 7:26 " A woman can be a bitter pill to swallow, full of seductive scheming and grasping. The LUCKY escape her; the undiscerning get caught.", Ecclesiastes 10:17 "LUCKY the land whose king is mature", Isaiah 7:21, 30:18 "GOD takes the time to do everything right--everything. Those who wait around for him are the LUCKY ones.", Isaiah 7:21, 30:18, Jeremiah 8:2, Zechariah 8:10, 11:5, Malachi 3:15 and Mark 10:49 "Jesus stopped in his tracks. "Call him over." They called him. "It's your LUCKY day! Get up! He's calling you to come!"

 

Let's look again at the initial verse that started this study.

 

Genesis 30:11 KJB - "And Leah said, A TROOP COMETH; and she called his name Gad." 


NASB, NET - "Then Leah said, "HOW FORTUNATE!" So she named him Gad."


ESV, RSV - "And Leah said, “GOOD FORTUNE HAS COME!” so she called his name Gad."


NIV, Holman - " Then Leah said, “WHAT GOOD FORTUNE!” So she named him Gad." 


Names of God Bible 2011 - "Leah said, “I’VE BEEN LUCKY!” So she called him Gad [Luck].



The Hebrew sentence here - "a troop cometh" - is composed of two words, "a troop" - and in the margin of the KJB is tells us that Gad means "a troop, or a company", and the verb "cometh" #935. This verb is used in hundreds of places in the O.T. But neither the NASB nor the NIV or Holman translated the verb at all. The ESV at least put the verb in there, but there is no word for "good" and "troop" is not the same thing as "Fortune".


Other translations that are like the the King James Bible or similar to it are the Geneva Bible 1587 - "Then sayd Leah, A COMPANIE COMMETH: and she called his name, Gad.", the 1936 Hebrew Publishing Company Bible - "And Leah said, A TROOP COMETH, and she called his name Gad.", the KJV 21st Century Version 1994 - "And Leah said, “A troop cometh.” And she called his name Gad [that is, A troop or company].", the Third Millennium Bible 1998, the French Martin 1744 - "Et Léa dit : Une troupe est arrivée, c'est pourquoi elle le nomma Gad.", the Portuguese Almeida Corregida E Fiel 1681 - "Ento, disse Lia: Vem uma turba; e chamou o seu nome de Gade.”,  Czeck Bible Kralicka - “Protož řekla Lía: Již přišel zástup. A nazvala jméno jeho Gád.”, the Finnish Bible 1776 - “Ja Lea sanoi: joukko tulee: ja kutsui hänen nimensä Gad.” = And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.”


Geneva Bible Study Notes - And Leah said, (d) A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad. (d) That is, God increases me with a multitude of children for so Jacob explains this name Gad (Genesis 49:19)."

 

John Gill comments: "And Leah said, a troop cometh,.... A troop of children, having bore four herself, and now her maid another, and more she expected; or the commander of a troop cometh, one that shall head an army and overcome his enemies; which agrees with the prophecy of Jacob, Genesis 49:19, and she called his name Gad: which signifies a "troop", glorying in the multitude of her children, that she had or hoped to have."


Matthew Henry comments: "Two sons Zilpah bore to Jacob, whom Leah looked upon herself as entitled to, in token of which she called one Gad (Genesis 30:11), promising herself a little troop of children and children are the militia of a family, they fill the quiver, Psalm 127:4,5. "


Adam Clarke comments: "She called his name Gad - This has been variously translated. גד (gad), may signify a troop, an army... which we translate a troop cometh...The Septuagint translate it εν τυχη , with good fortune; the Vulgate, feliciter, happily; but in all this diversity our own translation may appear as probable as any, if not the genuine one." 


The Pulpit Commentaries - "The Authorised rendering, supported by the Samaritan, and supposed to accord better with Genesis 49:19, is approved by Calvin, Ainsworth, Bush, and others. And she called his name Gad"  

 

 

Isaiah 65:11 KJB - "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for THAT TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto THAT NUMBER."  

 

A fellow KJB believer writes -“I was listening to a man named Ken Peters and he made this comment: That Isa 65:11 in the KJ was mis-translated:  He said instead of troop and number it should say Gad and mene. Not Gad the troop of the the Israelites but Gad the Babylonian god of prosperity and destiny.”

 

So let's see if there is any merit to what our Bible Corrector, Ken Peters, says. It should first be noted that lots of Bible translators disagree with Mr. Peters, who no doubt, himself does not believe that ANY Bible in any language is or ever was the complete and inerrant words of God. What we have going on today is that every man seems to think he is an expert, and it's Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism gone to seed.  Let's take a closer look at this passage.

 

Isaiah 65:11 KJB - "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for THAT TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto THAT NUMBER."

 

ESV, NIV, NASB - "But you who forsake the LORD, who forget my holy mountain, who set a table for FORTUNE and fill cups for DESTINY."  ESV 2011.  

 

Ooops. No "Gad" and "meme". It looks like not everybody agrees with how Mr. Rogers thinks the verse should be translated.  

 

NKJV - "But you are those who forsake the LORD, Who forget My holy mountain, Who prepare a table for GAD (44) And who furnish a drink offering for MENI (45).  

 

The NKJV reads Gad and Meni and then footnotes the usual confusion I see with all these "scholarly" points of view. The NKJV had GAD - Footnote: Literally Troop or Fortune, a pagan deity.  MENI - Footnote: Literally Number or Destiny, a pagan deity.  

 

Well, the word "troop" also means a large company or many, and I don't know of any pagan deity names Troop. And  the word "number" also can refer to a number or several false gods and pagan practices which are referred to in verses 3-7 of this same chapter.  

 

The  "scholars" offer us some 10 or more very different views and opinions about what this verse means or how it should be translated. What one affirms another denies. I'll stick with the KJB which makes perfect sense as it stands.

 

The word the KJB translates as "that TROOP" is # 1409 and is found only 2 times in the entire Hebrew Old Testament.  It is the one we looked at earlier here in Genesis 30:11 where Leah says at the birth of Gad "A TROOP cometh: and she called his name Gad."  The second time is here in Isaiah 65:11 "prepare a table for that TROOP".  The second word the KJB translates as "that NUMBER" is # 4507 and is found only 1 time in the entire Hebrew Old Testament.  

 

Troop, Number, Fortune, Destiny, Gad, Meni, the Devil, Fortune tellers, bowls, Jupiter, the Planets?

 


Geneva Bible 1587 - "and haue prepared a table for THE MULTITUDE the multitude, and furnish the drinke offerings veto THE NUMBER."

 

Webster's Translation 1833 - "that prepare a table for that TROOP, and that furnish the drink-offering to that NUMBER."

 

The Great Bible 1540, Bishops' Bible 1568 - "ye haue set vp an aulter vnto JUPITER, and geuen riche drinke offeringes vnto THE PLANETS"

 

LXX, Complete Apostle's Bible 2005 - "prepare a table for THE DEVIL and fill the drink offering for FORTUNE

 

Lamsa's translation of the Syriac - "who prepare tables for FORTUNE TELLERS, and have poured out wine INTO BOWLS FOR THEM."

 

The Compete Tanach - "who set a table for GAD and who fill mingled wine for a NUMBER."  

 

The King James Bible is not wrong. You just have to think about it to figure out what the passage is talking about. If you want to learn of the wide variety of interpretations of what is being referred to in this verse, see such commentaries as John Gill, Matthew Poole, Barnes and others who tell of some 10 wildly different views held by different scholars. Some think it speaks of Jupiter, or the planet Mercury, or Venus, the Moon or the Sun or a star or Ashteroth or the host of heaven or a multitude of idols in general. 

 

Barnes’ Notes on the Bible. Even though he doesn’t like the KJB translation, yet he admits: “Much has been written on this place, and the views of the learned concerning Gad and Meni are very various and uncertain.” 

 

Several Bible commentators got it right.  

 

Matthew Henry - "Here the different states of the godly and wicked, of the Jews who believed, and of those who persisted in unbelief, are set against one another. They prepared a table for THAT TROOP OF DEITIES which the heathen worship, and poured out drink-offerings to that countless NUMBER."

 

John Gill - "that prepare a table for that troop; or, "for a troop"; a troop of idols worshipped…And that furnish the drink offering unto that number: or, "to a number"; to a number of deities, which were as numerous as their cities.”

 

The Pulpit Commentary. Even though it differs from the KJB, yet their own explanation gives credit to why the KJB has it the way it does. "There is ground for believing that "Gad" was a Phoenician deity, perhaps "the god of good fortune" (Cheyne), though this is not clearly ascertained; sometimes worshipped as an aspect of Baal, whence the name, Baal-Gad  sometimes connected with other deities, as Moloch and Ashtoreth."  In other words "a TROOP of different deities"

 

Adam Clarke comments: "The disquisitions and conjectures of the learned concerning Gad and Meni are infinite and uncertain. “But why should we be solicitous about it?” says Schmidius. “It appears sufficiently, from the circumstances, that they were false gods; either stars, or some natural objects; or a mere fiction. The Holy Scriptures did not deign to explain more clearly what these objects of idolatrous worship were.”

 

Benson Commentary - "for that troop -  A troop of idols, worshipped by the heathen”

 

John Wesley - "That troop - The idols of the ten tribes, and of the Assyrians, were a troop, where as the God of Israel was one God.  Number - The multitude of their idols.”

 

And the Geneva Study Bible notes - "By the multitude and number he means their innumerable idols of whom they thought they could never have enough."

Todays "bibles" are getting worse, not better. Get yourself the King James Bible and stick to it. All others are poor substitutes. Friends don't let friends use fake bible versions.

Notes from the Internet  

After posting this article at one of the forums a man, who himself does not believe that ANY Bible is the inerrant words of God, objected to my showing the use of these pagan words in the modern versions and made what he thought was a counterpoint against the King James Bible for allegedly doing the same thing.

He posted the example of the words "by chance" as found in Luke 10:31, where we read: "And BY CHANCE there came down certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side." This example of the use of the words "by chance" was supposed to be an argument against the KJB that would somehow justify in his mind the use of words like "fortunate", "destiny", "fate" and "lucky" in his modern versions, that not even he believes are God's infallible words.

So how do we answer this objection?  Well, once again, do a little study and find out more about our own English language.  The word "chance" does occur in the King James Bible and in fact it is found some 6 times. It is used in Deut. 22:6 "if a bird's nest chance to be before thee"; 1 Sam. 6:9 "it was a chance that happened to us"; 2 Sam. 1:6 "As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa"; Ecclesiastes 9:11 "time and chance happeneth to them all"; Luke 10:31 and 1 Cor. 15:37 "it may chance of wheat or of some other grain."

The English word "chance" comes from the Latin word "cadere" meaning "to befall" or to happen to, or to come about. It is NOT related in any way to some Greek or Roman god or goddess. It is simply "an occurrence". It is not related to such concepts as "fate" or "destiny" at all. In fact, the word "chance" implies a lack of premeditation or a predetermined outcome, as the words "fate" and "destiny" clearly do.  And, of course, the idea of "by chance" is from our human perspective, not from God's point of view. In His universe, nothing really happens "by chance".

 

"The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD."  Proverbs 16:33


Will Kinney 

Return to Articles -  http://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm


Additional Notes Regarding Isaiah 65:11 

Here are just a few commentaries that are out there. Notice the wide variety of differing opinions, speculations and theories.


Anytime somebody says something like "All scholars agree that...." you should know right away he has no idea what he is talking about.


John Gill - “that prepare a table for that troop; or, "for a troop"; a troop of idols worshipped; or, "for Gad", which some take to be the name of a star; and R. Moses the priest says it is the name of the star Jupiter, in the Arabic language, a lucky star. The Vulgate Latin version renders it, "for fortune": and the word is used by the Jewish writersF25 for the goddess Fortune, or good luck, and who make mention of "the bed of fortune"F26; a bed, which, they say, is prepared for a star, and no man may sleep on it;


And that furnish the drink offering unto that number: or, "to a number"; to a number of deities, which were as numerous as their cities, Jeremiah 2:28 and according to the number of them they provided drink offerings, or a mixture of wine and water; and also according to the number of the priests that sacrificed they filled cups of wine, as Jarchi observes; or according to the number of letters in a person's name they wished well to, as many cups they drank, to which Sanctius thinks the allusion is; or to "Meni", which R. Moses takes to be the name of a star; some interpret it of a number of stars or planets, the seven planets particularly; and others of the planet Mercury. Some think it is the name of an idol, either, of an idol of the Arabians, as PocockF2; or of the Armenians, as others, Armenia being called Minni, Jeremiah 51:27. The Targum interprets both clauses of idol deities; and so, in the gloss on the TalmudF3, they are both said to be the names of idols. BynaeusF4 seems to me to have advanced the best notion of Gad and Meni, translated "that troop", and "that number", which is, that the one signifies the sun, and the other the moon, which he supports with many reasons.”


Thomas Coke commentary - “But ye are they that forsake the Lord, &c.— But, &c. Who prepare a table for Gad [the sun], and serve or fill up a drink-offering to Meni [the moon].


Coffman commentary - “Here we have an outcropping of the Jews propensity for worshipping "the host of heaven" (Acts 7:42). "The planet Jupiter was worshipped as the god Fortune; and the planet Venus was worshipped, sometimes as Second Fortune, or as Destiny.””


Barne’s Notes - “The word Gad itself, however, never means troop, and evidently should not be so rendered here. Much has been written on this place, and the views of the learned concerning Gad and Meni are very various and uncertain. Those who are disposed to examine the subject at length, may consult Rosenmuller, Vitringa, and Gesenius on the passage; and also the following works.


On this passage the reader may consult the Dissertation el David Mills, De Gad et Meni, and also the Dissertation of Jo. Goth. Lakemacher, De Gad et Meni, both of which are to be found in Ugolin‘s Thesaurus, xxiii. pp. 671-718, where the subject is examined at length. Mills supposes that the names Gad and Meni are two names for the moon - sidus bonum, and μηνη mēnē He remarks that ‹on account of the power which the moon is supposed to exert over sublunary things, it was often called the goddess Fortune. It is certain that the Egyptians by Τύχη Tuchē (Fortune), which they numbered among the gods who were present at the birth of man, understood the moon.‘ Among the Arabians and Persians the moon is said to have been denominated Sidus felix et faustum - ‹The happy and propitious star.‘ See Rosenmuller in loc. Lakemather supposes that two idols are meant - Hecate and Mann Vitringa and Rosenmuller suppose that the sun and moon are intended. Grotius supposes that the name Gad means the same as the goddess Fortune, which was worshipped by the Hebrews, Chaldeans, and Arabians; and that Meni means a divinity of that name, which Strabo says was worshipped in Armenia and Phrygia. Other opinions may be seen in Vitringa.”


Pulpit Commentary -That prepare a table for that troop; rather, that prepare a table for Gad. There is ground for believing that "Gad" was a Phoenician deity, perhaps "the god of good fortune" (Cheyne), though this is not clearly ascertained; sometimes worshipped as an aspect of Baal, whence the name, Baal-Gad (Joshua 11:17; Joshua 12:7); sometimes connected with other deities, as Moloch and Ashtoreth. The practice of "preparing tables" for the heathen gods was a common one, and appears in Herod; 1.181; in Baruch 6:30; in Bel and the Dragon, verse 11; and in the Roman lectisternia. The tables prepared for the dead in Egyptian tombs were not very different, and implied a qualified worship of ancestors. And that furnish the drink offering unto that number; rather, and that fill up mixed drink for M'ni. M'ni appears, like Gad, to have been a Syrian deity, the name Ebed-M'ni, "servant of M'ni," occurring on Aramaeo-Persian coins of the Achaemenian period. The word may be suspected to be cognate to the Arabic "Manat," a god recognized in the Koran as a mediator with Allah; but can scarcely have any connection with the Aryan names for the moon deity, ΄ήν ΄ήνη, Mena, and the like. Its root is probably the Semitic manah, "to number" or" apportion," the word designating a deity who" apportions" men's fortunes to them ( τύχη, LXX.).


And there are even other theories about what "number' means. Some said it was the number of cups of wine the people drank! 

Isaiah 65:11 KJB - "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for THAT TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto THAT NUMBER."